My Argument For God
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14-01-2015, 04:05 PM
RE: My Argument For God
(14-01-2015 03:50 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  So you had an NDE and felt all special and shit and upon return to the waking world decided to twist your knowledge of science into an hypothesis in order to preserve your special snowflake status. You don't cite shit, you provide no testable data, there's no meat on these bones. Go take your blankie and sit in the corner.

An hypothesis based upon NDEs requires no more refutation than one based upon chemtrails.

No, i am not special, i am not better than anyone.
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14-01-2015, 04:06 PM
RE: My Argument For God
(14-01-2015 04:03 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  *Does quiet happy dance that their huge, long post actually got all the fiddly quote-y bits right first time* Banana_zorro

Good job! Big Grin

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14-01-2015, 04:07 PM
RE: My Argument For God
(14-01-2015 12:19 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  In short what I'm saying is consciousness is infinite, and therefore exists in some infinite domain.

Your entire thesis rest on this. My consciousness had a beginning. It will have an end. It's spatial scope is limited. It is finite.

Quote:Many NDE accounts report that upon death...

You would be better off getting your data from a drunk in a back alley. NDEs are experienced under conditions where the body is suffering the most severe trauma imaginable. Medical professionals have difficulty even finding vital signs. This is the textbook definition of impaired faculties.

Quote:No, there is no brain. The brain is just a myriad of wave functions.

You say that you're a physicist? I'm beginning to have my doubts.

Quote:according to brain biologists

And now I have doubts about whether you're a scientist of any type.

Quote:Moreover, all of these processes REQUIRE CONSCIOUSNESS in order to occur-they therefore cannot be the source of Consciousness.

You seem to have some very peculiar ideas about how the Copenhagen interpretation of QCD works.

Quote:The core of what I am alluding to is that this ENTIRE UNIVERSE…EVERYTHING, is just a construct of consciousness.

It's called existentialism and is hardly anything new. You've dressed it up in a lab coat making it an untenable bastardization of science and philosophy.


Quote:You are not who or what you think you are, YOU are at the very core of reality.

Take the blue pill.
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Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
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14-01-2015, 04:08 PM
RE: My Argument For God
(14-01-2015 01:00 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  
(14-01-2015 12:57 PM)Ace Wrote:  so far all I'm seeing is a mishmash of every argument theists have used so far with nothing new at all

Thats, cool. But apparently you don't understand my argument, because you are the average layperson who is an atheist. I want to hear you guys refuting my argument rather than just saying "I'm an atheist" I don't believe in anything, or getting nit picky with my post.

I certainly understand that you make an unjustified leap when you say:
"My solution to the problem is that time and space both do and do not exist; space-time in this physical cosmos is a mere perception. In short what I'm saying is consciousness is infinite, and therefore exists in some infinite domain."

It in no way follows that consciousness is infinite, nor do you even define what that means or how a finite brain holds an infinite consciousness.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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14-01-2015, 04:13 PM
RE: My Argument For God
(14-01-2015 03:51 PM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  
(14-01-2015 03:49 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  Anger, always a sign your fragile belief system is being threatened, or that you don't even have a understanding of the science that your beliefs hang on..but wait i thought atheists have no beliefs…so does this mean you don't even believe in science?

You keep accusing others here of not being educated enough to counter your arguments, but you don't even know what an atheist is...

...therefore, you might be a cunt.

Atheism in many schools of thought, is defined as a religion, although most people don't understand how this can be since it typically denies the existence of God. However, belief in God is not a requirement to be defined as a religion. There are also forms of atheism, which attempt alternate explanations for God, such as collective consciousness, and so on. The Supreme court recognizes Atheism as a religion and protects it as such.

In simple terms, absolute denial of the existence of God without proof is a belief system, a RELIGION. The counter argument 'you have failed to prove God's existence' is insufficient, a mere shifting of the burden of proof as a result of failing to produce such proof among yourselves. If you deny the existence of God without definitive proof, you are engaged in a belief system, by definition a religion, because Gods existence is the focus of your belief system, and that is a formal definition, LOOK IT UP.
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14-01-2015, 04:17 PM
RE: My Argument For God
(14-01-2015 04:13 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  
(14-01-2015 03:51 PM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  You keep accusing others here of not being educated enough to counter your arguments, but you don't even know what an atheist is...

...therefore, you might be a cunt.

Atheism in many schools of thought, is defined as a religion, although most people don't understand how this can be since it typically denies the existence of God. However, belief in God is not a requirement to be defined as a religion. There are also forms of atheism, which attempt alternate explanations for God, such as collective consciousness, and so on. The Supreme court recognizes Atheism as a religion and protects it as such.

In simple terms, absolute denial of the existence of God without proof is a belief system, a RELIGION. The counter argument 'you have failed to prove God's existence' is insufficient, a mere shifting of the burden of proof as a result of failing to produce such proof among yourselves. If you deny the existence of God without definitive proof, you are engaged in a belief system, by definition a religion, because Gods existence is the focus of your belief system, and that is a formal definition, LOOK IT UP.

I knew you were full of shit from the get-go, this proves it.
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14-01-2015, 04:24 PM
RE: My Argument For God
Hello again. Please return and at least skim the huge post/reply I made to you?

Please?

(14-01-2015 04:13 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  Atheism in many schools of thought, is defined as a religion,

That's great.... And in a great many other areas of thought it is NOT defined as a religion, so there's that.

(14-01-2015 04:13 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  ... Although most people don't understand how this can be since it typically denies the existence of God. However, belief in God is not a requirement to be defined as a religion. There are also forms of atheism, which attempt alternate explanations for God, such as collective consciousness, and so on.

And Buddhism is also an 'Atheistic' religion. Again, however, pointing to religions which are 'atheistic' still does not make the position of being an atheist a religion. Hope you can grok the difference?

(14-01-2015 04:13 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  The Supreme court recognizes Atheism as a religion and protects it as such.

That's nice. But there's a world outside your country. Perhaps you should look them up? Wink

(14-01-2015 04:13 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  In simple terms, absolute denial of the existence of God without proof is a belief system,

Except, and here's the thing, many atheists are NOT doing that. They are NOT denying the existence of god. They are (As I've posted) calmly waiting for the evidence of any such.

(14-01-2015 04:13 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  The counter argument 'you have failed to prove God's existence' is insufficient, a mere shifting of the burden of proof as a result of failing to produce such proof among yourselves.

What? No! You're now trying to 'create' an atheist that fits your definitions and not the whole possibility of the many varied shades of atheism.

(14-01-2015 04:13 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  If you deny the existence of God without definitive proof, you are engaged in a belief system, by definition a religion, because Gods existence is the focus of your belief system, and that is a formal definition, LOOK IT UP.

Again, no. One can be an 'Agnostic atheist'. There's a whole slew of various shades.

To most atheists, the notion of gods simply doesn't count. It's not a matter of 'actively disbelieving'.

As for 'Denying the existence of something'. If there are definite, certified claims made about a specific something then these can and are tested against what is known of reality. if they don't match up with reality then, guess what? They are dismissed.

Much cheers to all.
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14-01-2015, 04:24 PM
RE: My Argument For God
(14-01-2015 04:17 PM)pablo Wrote:  
(14-01-2015 04:13 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  Atheism in many schools of thought, is defined as a religion, although most people don't understand how this can be since it typically denies the existence of God. However, belief in God is not a requirement to be defined as a religion. There are also forms of atheism, which attempt alternate explanations for God, such as collective consciousness, and so on. The Supreme court recognizes Atheism as a religion and protects it as such.

In simple terms, absolute denial of the existence of God without proof is a belief system, a RELIGION. The counter argument 'you have failed to prove God's existence' is insufficient, a mere shifting of the burden of proof as a result of failing to produce such proof among yourselves. If you deny the existence of God without definitive proof, you are engaged in a belief system, by definition a religion, because Gods existence is the focus of your belief system, and that is a formal definition, LOOK IT UP.

I knew you were full of shit from the get-go, this proves it.

lmao, every thing i just said is true and you know it, come on bud its ok to admit i just straight hoed your ass
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14-01-2015, 04:26 PM
RE: My Argument For God
(14-01-2015 04:02 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  
(14-01-2015 03:44 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Not at all. I'm just saying that I've worked for those companies too. Seriously. No sarcasm intended.

I have pointed out your non sequitur. You haven't responded to that.

Dodgy

what specifically is non-sequitur?

See post #27.

Drinking Beverage

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14-01-2015, 04:27 PM
RE: My Argument For God
(14-01-2015 03:27 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  I don't align myself with any one 'God' or religion, that is human folly.

So what are you then? Deist? Pantheist?

(14-01-2015 03:27 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  We are not necessarily 'God' or we are not necessarily 'all one'. The best way that I can describe this is that there is a little 'you', finite, seemingly separate from God, limited, perhaps even powerless, a construct that will in fact cease to exist upon death. Then there is a BIG YOU, an infinite being, made of the same 'stuff' as God, hand crafted by God - no man could differentiate BIG YOU from God. your current personality, body, memories, etc. are ALL finite constructs of BIG YOU, who is infinite in scope.

Nice story, where's the evidence?

(14-01-2015 03:27 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  How do I know this? I have had 2 ndes in my life, and while i know that such evidence is nothing to any atheist, and i don't blame you, the above paragraph is the best way i can describe our true nature.

You "know" this based upon that which you admit is "by no means hard evidence" (from the OP), but you now say is evidence, just not to an atheist. You're starting to contradict yourself, but that aside, you were closer the first time. Personal experience is worthless as evidence. For one thing, I only know you claim to have had these NDE's. How could I know you really did? But even if you did, there is no evidence that your interpretation of them is correct.

(14-01-2015 03:27 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  This current human life is just a momentary perception, like looking down through a microscope. This is a tiny fraction of the focus of the awareness of your true self.

Proof? Citation?

(14-01-2015 03:27 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  When you agree to be born as a human you agree upon a set of rules suitable for your purpose in 'the game'.

Before I was born, I never agreed to anything. I was nothing. I didn't exist. There was no "me" to agree.

(14-01-2015 03:27 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  You, we, are currently in a dream…but not a lucid one

Many other NDErs say similar things to what I am saying. It was as if they 'woke up' and were surrounded by beings who they have known since before this universe even existed.

It sounds ludicrous to you, but when you wake up from this dream (dye) there will be no amazement, you will have known all along that this life was a dream you agreed to.

You're right about one thing. It does sound ludicrous. Our brains are all constructed similarly. It's no big surprise that they are all, or at least most, capable of producing similar illusions. That's why people who have NDE's describe similar events. And, the fact that those events tend to be tailored to the person's own earthly life - like their personal religious beliefs - is evidence that it comes from the brain, not from something external or transcendent.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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