My Argument For God
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14-01-2015, 04:51 PM
RE: My Argument For God
(14-01-2015 04:13 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  
(14-01-2015 03:51 PM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  You keep accusing others here of not being educated enough to counter your arguments, but you don't even know what an atheist is...

...therefore, you might be a cunt.

Atheism in many schools of thought,

No, it is a non-acceptance of god claims.

Quote:is defined as a religion,

No, it is a position on religion. If one fills in 'None' for 'Religion', that doesn't make 'None' a religion.

Quote:although most people don't understand how this can be since it typically denies the existence of God.

No, it simply does not accept the existence of any gods.

Quote:However, belief in God is not a requirement to be defined as a religion. There are also forms of atheism, which attempt alternate explanations for God, such as collective consciousness, and so on.

No, those may be atheistic, but they are not atheism.

Quote:The Supreme court recognizes Atheism as a religion and protects it as such.

No, they recognize it is a stance on religion and deserves the same protection as any other stance.

Quote:In simple terms, absolute denial of the existence of God without proof is a belief system, a RELIGION.

No, that is strong atheism. You will find most here are agnostic atheists. You would have known that had you actually read some posts or just asked.

Quote:The counter argument 'you have failed to prove God's existence' is insufficient, a mere shifting of the burden of proof as a result of failing to produce such proof among yourselves.

Not accepting unevidenced claims does not shift the burden of proof. Since an agnostic atheist is not making a claim, no proof is required.

Quote:If you deny the existence of God without definitive proof, you are engaged in a belief system,

But we're not, so there's that.

Quote:by definition a religion, because Gods existence is the focus of your belief system, and that is a formal definition, LOOK IT UP.

Look up 'atheism' because you don't understand what it is.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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14-01-2015, 04:54 PM
RE: My Argument For God
Ultimately is there any point in arguing with me??NOOO!!! None. We are dust in the wind, there is absolutely no point to anything anywhere because it all ends in oblivion. To make the argument 'but it matters now' is BS. No it does not. As many atheists have said, our consciousness is an illusion or a self monitoring system, you are essentially a robot. So with that in mind rape and murder are ok, because, since you will cease to exist your actions mean nothing. Rape is as noble as helping the homeless. We are an accident, you are an accident, heck if you were here in the same room and I held the same beliefs as you why would I not just kill you?? There are no reasons why a shouldn't. There is no morality it is a survival of the fittest and with that view in mind I should just approach life with a psychopathic mindset.

So as I said in the beginning, you believing or disbelieving in certain things at this moment doesn't matter, there is no point to anything anywhere.


What I have just stated is the heart of atheism, what a pitiable lot you all are.
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14-01-2015, 04:55 PM
RE: My Argument For God
(14-01-2015 04:29 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  
(14-01-2015 04:24 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Hello again. Please return and at least skim the huge post/reply I made to you?

Please?


That's great.... And in a great many other areas of thought it is NOT defined as a religion, so there's that.


And Buddhism is also an 'Atheistic' religion. Again, however, pointing to religions which are 'atheistic' still does not make the position of being an atheist a religion. Hope you can grok the difference?


That's nice. But there's a world outside your country. Perhaps you should look them up? Wink


Except, and here's the thing, many atheists are NOT doing that. They are NOT denying the existence of god. They are (As I've posted) calmly waiting for the evidence of any such.


What? No! You're now trying to 'create' an atheist that fits your definitions and not the whole possibility of the many varied shades of atheism.


Again, no. One can be an 'Agnostic atheist'. There's a whole slew of various shades.

To most atheists, the notion of gods simply doesn't count. It's not a matter of 'actively disbelieving'.

As for 'Denying the existence of something'. If there are definite, certified claims made about a specific something then these can and are tested against what is known of reality. if they don't match up with reality then, guess what? They are dismissed.

Much cheers to all.

Atheism:Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Most inclusively, atheism is the absence of belief that any deities exist.

ok, so theism is certainly as valid if not more so than atheism. If atheists cannot produce any irrefutable evidence against God, then they are certainly engaged in a mere fragile belief system.

Nope. Atheism isn't a belief system. You need to look up 'atheism'.

Your presuppositional, straw-man arguments are misguided.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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14-01-2015, 04:55 PM
RE: My Argument For God
(14-01-2015 04:29 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  Atheism:Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Most inclusively, atheism is the absence of belief that any deities exist.

ok, so theism is certainly as valid if not more so than atheism. If atheists cannot produce any irrefutable evidence against God, then they are certainly engaged in a mere fragile belief system.

I don't claim there is a god and I don't claim there isn't a god. I just haven't run across any evidence proving there is a god. It could happen.

Personally, I claim that if there is a god, it is irrelevant.

By the way... there is nothing "fragile" about not believing something. I don't believe the cubbies will ever win the world series... I love the fuck out of them but ... that too, is irrelevant. Drinking Beverage

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14-01-2015, 04:58 PM
RE: My Argument For God
(14-01-2015 04:13 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  Atheism in many schools of thought, is defined as a religion, although most people don't understand how this can be since it typically denies the existence of God. However, belief in God is not a requirement to be defined as a religion. There are also forms of atheism, which attempt alternate explanations for God, such as collective consciousness, and so on. The Supreme court recognizes Atheism as a religion and protects it as such.

In simple terms, absolute denial of the existence of God without proof is a belief system, a RELIGION. The counter argument 'you have failed to prove God's existence' is insufficient, a mere shifting of the burden of proof as a result of failing to produce such proof among yourselves. If you deny the existence of God without definitive proof, you are engaged in a belief system, by definition a religion, because Gods existence is the focus of your belief system, and that is a formal definition, LOOK IT UP.

Here is an article I wrote on Historical Atheism:

Historical Atheism


Over the many years I have seen many different interpretations of atheism. The point of this article is to demonstrate the history of atheism as it was understood in ancient times.

Wikipedia Offers this bit of history:

"Western atheism has its roots in pre-Socratic Greek philosophy, but did not emerge as a distinct world-view until the late Enlightenment.The 5th-century BCE Greek philosopher Diagoras is known as the "first atheist", and is cited as such by Cicero in his De Natura Deorum. Atomists such as Democritus attempted to explain the world in a purely materialistic way, without reference to the spiritual or mystical. Critias viewed religion as a human invention used to frighten people into following moral order and Prodicus also appears to have made clear atheistic statements in his work. Philodemus reports that Prodicus believed that "the gods of popular belief do not exist nor do they know, but primitive man, [out of admiration, deified] the fruits of the earth and virtually everything that contributed to his existence". Protagoras has sometimes been taken to be an atheist but rather espoused agnostic views, commenting that "Concerning the gods I am unable to discover whether they exist or not, or what they are like in form; for there are many hindrances to knowledge, the obscurity of the subject and the brevity of human life." In the 3rd-century BCE the Greek philosophers Theodorus Cyrenaicus and Strato of Lampsacus[147] did not believe gods exist.

Socrates (c. 470–399 BCE) was associated in the Athenian public mind with the trends in pre-Socratic philosophy towards naturalistic inquiry and the rejection of divine explanations for phenomena. Although such an interpretation misrepresents his thought he was portrayed in such a way in Aristophanes' comic play Clouds and was later to be tried and executed for impiety and corrupting the young. At his trial Socrates is reported as vehemently denying that he was an atheist and contemporary scholarship provides little reason to doubt this claim.

Euhemerus (c. 300 BCE) published his view that the gods were only the deified rulers, conquerors and founders of the past, and that their cults and religions were in essence the continuation of vanished kingdoms and earlier political structures. Although not strictly an atheist, Euhemerus was later criticized for having "spread atheism over the whole inhabited earth by obliterating the gods".

Also important in the history of atheism was Epicurus (c. 300 BCE). Drawing on the ideas of Democritus and the Atomists, he espoused a materialistic philosophy according to which the universe was governed by the laws of chance without the need for divine intervention. Although he stated that deities existed, he believed that they were uninterested in human existence. The aim of the Epicureans was to attain peace of mind and one important way of doing this was by exposing fear of divine wrath as irrational. The Epicureans also denied the existence of an afterlife and the need to fear divine punishment after death.

The Roman philosopher Sextus Empiricus held that one should suspend judgment about virtually all beliefs—a form of skepticism known as Pyrrhonism—that nothing was inherently evil, and that ataraxia ("peace of mind") is attainable by withholding one's judgment. His relatively large volume of surviving works had a lasting influence on later philosophers.

The meaning of "atheist" changed over the course of classical antiquity. The early Christians were labeled atheists by non-Christians because of their disbelief in pagan gods. During the Roman Empire, Christians were executed for their rejection of the Roman gods in general and Emperor-worship in particular. When Christianity became the state religion of Rome under Theodosius I in 381, heresy became a punishable offense."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

The oldest known written text referring to atheism is actually found in Papyrus 46, which is also known as The Epistle to the Ephesians in the New Testament of the Holy Bible. It is located at Eph 2:12:


Eph 2:12 and that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world.

The words "without God" written in the ancient Koine Greek are translated into English as "atheos," and then modernized to "atheists."

The earliest written definition of "atheist" is "godless," and/or "Without God." As it is used by Paul in Eph 2:12, Paul is telling the Ephesians that before they recieved the Gospel, they were atheists. Here is Eph 2:12 written with atheists in place:

Eph 2:12 and that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and were atheists in the world.

So what does this tell us? It is the earliest recorded written use of the word "atheists," and it demonstrates historically that those who had no beliefs in certain specific gods were regarded as atheists. In Paul's example above, he is telling the Ephesians that before they recieved the Gospel, they were atheists, and he says this despite the fact that the Ephesians had previously believed in other gods, such as the numerous Greek gods of the era.

In ancient times, different religious cultures such as the Jews, Christians, and Greeks, regarded each others' gods as being false, and therefore they regarded other religious cultures as being atheists. Their position was basically, "Your gods are false, therefore you have no gods. Hence, you are atheists."

The meaning of "atheist" changed over the course of classical antiquity. The early Christians were labeled atheists by non-Christians because of their disbelief in pagan gods. During the Roman Empire, Christians were executed for their rejection of the Roman gods in general and Emperor-worship in particular.

Given all the historical evidence available, the oldest and most accurate known definition of "atheism" is described as "the state of being godless."

Therefore, an atheist is one who exists in a state of being without any gods, which is implicit of a lack of belief in gods.

Incidentally, this state of atheism is the precise state we are all born with and maintain up until we are indoctrinated with religious beliefs in gods. This indicates that one does not become an atheist, but rather becomes a theist following being first in a state of atheism.


Atheism is our most natural, and original, state of being.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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14-01-2015, 05:00 PM
RE: My Argument For God
(14-01-2015 03:49 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  belief system is being threatened

For the third time - Please explain to us this "belief system" you keep alluding to. Thanks.
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14-01-2015, 05:03 PM
RE: My Argument For God
Atheists have identified a certain thing, God, and run like hell in the opposite direction. God is the center piece of atheism. Most atheist whether they admit it or not still have a nagging feeling deep down that God might be real. If you say this is not true, you are a liar.
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14-01-2015, 05:04 PM
RE: My Argument For God
(14-01-2015 05:03 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  Atheists have identified a certain thing, God, and run like hell in the opposite direction. God is the center piece of atheism. Most atheist whether they admit it or not still have a nagging feeling deep down that God might be real. If you say this is not true, you are a liar.

God does not exist.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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14-01-2015, 05:08 PM
RE: My Argument For God
(14-01-2015 04:54 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  Ultimately is there any point in arguing with me??NOOO!!! None. We are dust in the wind, there is absolutely no point to anything anywhere because it all ends in oblivion. To make the argument 'but it matters now' is BS. No it does not. As many atheists have said, our consciousness is an illusion or a self monitoring system, you are essentially a robot. So with that in mind rape and murder are ok, because, since you will cease to exist your actions mean nothing. Rape is as noble as helping the homeless. We are an accident, you are an accident, heck if you were here in the same room and I held the same beliefs as you why would I not just kill you?? There are no reasons why a shouldn't. There is no morality it is a survival of the fittest and with that view in mind I should just approach life with a psychopathic mindset.

So as I said in the beginning, you believing or disbelieving in certain things at this moment doesn't matter, there is no point to anything anywhere.


What I have just stated is the heart of atheism, what a pitiable lot you all are.

Get lost, you sanctimonious asshole. Don't let the door hit you on your way out, you arrogant prick.
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14-01-2015, 05:09 PM (This post was last modified: 14-01-2015 05:13 PM by mmhm1234.)
RE: My Argument For God
Ok, so let me get this straight, atheism has no beliefs, but they tend to believe in science, one thing they most certainly don't believe is real is their 'self' yet their 'self' seems to be quite concerned and bothered by what theists believe, but if you tell them this they say they aren't, but they really are. It's a maze of confusing definitions and beliefs and in the end it's all gibberish
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