My Argument For God
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14-01-2015, 09:08 PM
RE: My Argument For God
I would have never believed the full extent of the batshit explanations that theists use to “prove” their personal god until I came to TTA. Facepalm

Newest offering:

“How to mangle scientific terms 101” by mmhm1234

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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14-01-2015, 10:55 PM
RE: My Argument For God
(14-01-2015 09:08 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  I would have never believed the full extent of the batshit explanations that theists use to “prove” their personal god until I came to TTA. Facepalm

Newest offering:

“How to mangle scientific terms 101” by mmhm1234

Read my new post. No mangling whatsoever there. The mangling sensation is just your utter lack of understanding of what I'm saying. If such is the case I encourage you to look up the formal definitions on your own.
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14-01-2015, 10:57 PM
RE: My Argument For God
(14-01-2015 09:01 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(14-01-2015 07:42 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  K give me a while and I'll formulate a reply to your questions (I might start a new thread so keep your eyes peeled).

This time I will try to present my argument as clear as I possibly can and make as little room for interpretation. That was my first post on here and I typed it up in under an hour.

I can type in 5 seconds.

"I got nuthin' "
(And this time, tell us how exactly consciousness not being dependent on a brain is an argument for a deity.

It completely refutes your mechanistic approach.
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14-01-2015, 11:05 PM
RE: My Argument For God
(14-01-2015 10:55 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  
(14-01-2015 09:08 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  I would have never believed the full extent of the batshit explanations that theists use to “prove” their personal god until I came to TTA. Facepalm

Newest offering:

“How to mangle scientific terms 101” by mmhm1234

Read my new post. No mangling whatsoever there. The mangling sensation is just your utter lack of understanding of what I'm saying. If such is the case I encourage you to look up the formal definitions on your own.

Oh...great...a...new...post.

Will you be mixing or mangling?

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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14-01-2015, 11:40 PM
RE: My Argument For God
(14-01-2015 10:57 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  ... refutes your mechanistic approach.

Reltzik in post #125 did you an extraordinary courtesy and patiently responded to your OP in full in a genuine spirit of intellectual inquiry. Thus far you have failed to even acknowledge that Reltzik has posted here at all. Until you return that courtesy, and in so doing reflect courtesy for the full thread audience, by answering his many thoughtful and salient points, your purpose here cannot be intellectually honest. I encourage you to remedy that perception and take the time to answer that post, point by point.
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15-01-2015, 12:18 AM
RE: My Argument For God
(14-01-2015 10:57 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  
(14-01-2015 09:01 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I can type in 5 seconds.

"I got nuthin' "
(And this time, tell us how exactly consciousness not being dependent on a brain is an argument for a deity.

It completely refutes your mechanistic approach.

So you claim. and wish. Unfortunately you have failed to substantiate your CLAIM.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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15-01-2015, 02:02 AM
RE: My Argument For God
(14-01-2015 02:33 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  
(14-01-2015 02:26 PM)unfogged Wrote:  Even if you could prove what you claim, it would not follow that it makes individuals exist infinitely. Just like my body is a temporary arrangement of matter (even if that matter did turn out to REQUIRE consciousness in any way), the part of this universal consciousness that is "me" could be a temporary pattern within the larger whole.


What I hear reading most of your screed is "there's stuff we can't explain so here's a conjecture to explain it". Some of it is interesting but I don't find it compelling. We don't yet have a solid enough grasp of the rules at the quantum level to make the leaps you are making.


Please speak for yourself. I do not have any inherent knowledge of an eternal nature. It makes much more sense to me that "I" am nothing more than a particular arrangement of matter and energy that will not last long before it is dissolved.

The interesting thing to me is that this barely gets you to a deistic god, certainly not a theistic one. Why would consciousness be splintered like it is if it is the substrate for everything else?

All very good questions. I am simply presenting my ideas because mainstream science has nothing to say on the matter other than ideological arguments.

Also I'm saying your infinite (eternal) nature is a property, like any property in physics, not at all dependent upon your 'beliefs'.

lets pretend to agree with your ideas without objection..............
then what ? how do we follow up with it ? what tests can we perform to verify any of it ? what predictive power does your idea have ?
these are the ultimate requirements in science for anything to be considered valid and not the ability to form cute little arguments

also saying minds exist independently of physical matter is nothing new, its a very old concept called Substance Dualism

if the mind is independent of the brain then whatever affects the brain should not affect the mind
lets say you drink a lot of beer and get drunk, how is your mind when drunk ? is it the same as before or is it different ?

no scientific experiment in history has ever proven that the mind exists independently of physical matter because everything that affects the brain ultimately affects the mind

also Craig uses substance dualism , here's why its wrong
skip to 11:06 if you just want to cut to the chase


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15-01-2015, 04:16 AM
RE: My Argument For God
Ok, my eyes are bleeding, I shouldn't have looked for an answer to my comment first thing in the morning. Confused

I found no answer, so here goes again:

(14-01-2015 06:10 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(14-01-2015 03:27 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  We are not necessarily 'God' or we are not necessarily 'all one'. The best way that I can describe this is that there is a little 'you', finite, seemingly separate from God, limited, perhaps even powerless, a construct that will in fact cease to exist upon death. Then there is a BIG YOU, an infinite being, made of the same 'stuff' as God, hand crafted by God - no man could differentiate BIG YOU from God. your current personality, body, memories, etc. are ALL finite constructs of BIG YOU, who is infinite in scope.

This current human life is just a momentary perception, like looking down through a microscope. This is a tiny fraction of the focus of the awareness of your true self.

When you agree to be born as a human you agree upon a set of rules suitable for your purpose in 'the game'.

Some of these i can think of are
-you exist seemingly separate from God
-space and time are real
-the physical carnal world is real
-you have no immediate perception of your true infinite nature
-you are required to burry yourself in the role--the willful suspension of disbelief--as though hit were real.

You, we, are currently in a dream…but not a lucid one

Ok, lets assume all this is true.

Leaves you with the question: What's the point? Why would we leave the realm of bliss to pop into bodies that deteriorate and cause monumental suffering for some?

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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15-01-2015, 10:05 AM
RE: My Argument For God
(14-01-2015 05:03 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  Atheists have identified a certain thing, God, and run like hell in the opposite direction. God is the center piece of atheism. Most atheist whether they admit it or not still have a nagging feeling deep down that God might be real. If you say this is not true, you are a liar.

This looks suspiciously like flailing desperation that I have seen many times before. It's what many theists resort to when their arguments aren't getting anywhere. It's nothing but a completely unfounded assertion topped off with "deny it and you're a liar" so it automatically closes off any reply like some desperate kid who will say anything just to ensure not losing an argument. It's also willfully ignoring the facts - namely that many atheists have no nagging feeling whatsoever that there is a real God. I'm one of those. But, if you feel better believing I'm a liar because it helps you to avoid your cognitive dissonance, all I can say is whatever floats your boat. But it's dishonest. Drinking Beverage

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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15-01-2015, 10:07 AM
RE: My Argument For God
(14-01-2015 04:54 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  Ultimately is there any point in arguing with me??NOOO!!! None. We are dust in the wind, there is absolutely no point to anything anywhere because it all ends in oblivion. To make the argument 'but it matters now' is BS. No it does not. As many atheists have said, our consciousness is an illusion or a self monitoring system, you are essentially a robot. So with that in mind rape and murder are ok, because, since you will cease to exist your actions mean nothing. Rape is as noble as helping the homeless. We are an accident, you are an accident, heck if you were here in the same room and I held the same beliefs as you why would I not just kill you?? There are no reasons why a shouldn't. There is no morality it is a survival of the fittest and with that view in mind I should just approach life with a psychopathic mindset.

So as I said in the beginning, you believing or disbelieving in certain things at this moment doesn't matter, there is no point to anything anywhere.


What I have just stated is the heart of atheism, what a pitiable lot you all are.

And this shows clearly that you have no understanding of atheism... at all.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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