My Argument For God
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14-01-2015, 02:54 PM
RE: My Argument For God
(14-01-2015 01:15 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  
(14-01-2015 12:57 PM)Free Wrote:  That's because atheists don't have any beliefs.


Actually, the typical atheist doesn't give a fuck.


Citation required, or at least provide some kind of evidence to support this belief.


Many make that claim, none have proven it.

Heres a little math regarding limits at infinity that might clear up why I'm saying consciousness must be infinite. SO, any number 'n' divided by infinity equals zero.
and infinity divided by any number equals infinity.

If you don't exist for infinity you don't even exist…not even know. But if you are real, if you existence, then you exist for infinity.

As seemingly bizarre as the description is, the argument involves basic mathematical axiom regarding limits at infinity, the certainty of ones own existence, the fact the observable universe is finite, and nothing more.

When applied to the seeming paradoxes in physics the paradoxes don't exist. Resolving all paradoxes in one definition with three symbols is a symptom of a definition that is correct:

N/infinity=0
infinity/N=infinity

When this definition of consciousness is applied to on 'self', and the nature of one's origin, fate, and state of being, that paradox is also dismissed. We reside in an infinite domain, and we observe events (perception only) we selectively regard as progressing in a linear fashion in a non-infinite domain. The seemingly asymmetric forward progression of linear time is an artifact of the selection, not an inherent property of space-time.

Well, let me take you right back to your OP with a single statement i will quote:

Quote:This universe is finite it has a defined beginning i.e. the big bang and it therefore is bound and is not infinite.

Everything you are proposing in relation to your argument for a god must necessarily depend on the above quote being true. Therefore ...

Here are just two questions:

1. Can you conclusively demonstrate that the Big Bang is the origin of existence?

2. Can you conclusively demonstrate that the universe is finite?

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14-01-2015, 02:55 PM
RE: My Argument For God
(14-01-2015 02:50 PM)Ace Wrote:  
(14-01-2015 02:18 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  You are still assuming that the brain creates consciousness, there is no proof whatsoever that this is true and in my original post i explained why. Other states of consciousness such as sleep anesthesia etc. are just perceptions.

If you are an artifact of the physical universe, then you are an artifact of a thing that is finite and does not truly exist (zero), and you therefore do not exist (an artifact of zero).

You and the physical universe cannot be co-artifacts of each other. One is finite, the other is not. This mathematical condition is necessary in order for either one to exist, given the fact that one is known to be bound on both sides and therefore finite. Also, keep in mind that the boundaries of 'you' are completely unknown and not even a solid speculation has been presented to date to explain 'you' as any phenomenon suitable within the common frameworks of science, philosophy, or religion, but remains the most elusive of all things to define.

You cannot 'fit' an infinite (eternal) thing (you) inside of a finite system-this universe. You are not here. You are merely observing phenomenon in a finite domain, not actually confined to that finite domain. This is not ideological but based on the simple mathematical axioms regarding limits at infinity. These formal axioms state unambiguously that this is the case.

the brain is the only source of consciousness, and you have provided nothing to support the claim that minds exist independent of physical matter

here's a video on axioms



I have, but you didn't understand it. Also you have provided nothing to say it does exist in the brain. Its just part of the modern scientific dogma, with no evidence whatsoever, none, nada, zilch.
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14-01-2015, 02:55 PM
RE: My Argument For God
Quote:OK well if you want me to drop the QP which provides the backbone to my argument then I will, but then it is only ideological, but if that is easier for you to understand then ok.

That's all you've ever had, an ideological argument that depends on an unproven hypothetical backbone.
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14-01-2015, 02:56 PM
RE: My Argument For God
(14-01-2015 02:33 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  All very good questions. I am simply presenting my ideas because mainstream science has nothing to say on the matter other than ideological arguments.

I'd say it is because mainstream science is suspending judgement while looking for ways to test conjectures in order to find evidence. You are leaping over that to assume that what sounds good to you is true. That is not a reasonable path to understanding.

Quote:Also I'm saying your infinite (eternal) nature is a property, like any property in physics, not at all dependent upon your 'beliefs'.

Which is your belief. My belief is that your belief is an assertion without sufficient grounds to accept. As I said before, even if everything you claim is true it doesn't imply that "I" have an eternal nature in any meaningful sense, nor that this "consciousness" that you think exists "outside the box" is actually conscious in any way comparable to the consciousness that I experience.

You've gone past what science has demonstrated with a lot of wishful thinking and wrapped it up in technobabble to disguise the fact that you have nothing of substance to support your claims.

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14-01-2015, 02:58 PM
RE: My Argument For God
(14-01-2015 02:54 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(14-01-2015 02:51 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  ...
I have worked for organizations such as SmithKline Beecham, Merck Research Labs and Johnson&Johnson

There's a coincidence... so have I. Unilever, too.

Lmao, what do you guys want me to disclose personal information on here. it doesn't matter if i did or didn't work there, that doesn't effect the validity of my argument. And I'm still waiting for any one of you to refute what I'm saying, but you can't. You are refuting by saying you don't understand, therefore it must not be true, there must be deception. But there is none
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14-01-2015, 03:01 PM
RE: My Argument For God
(14-01-2015 02:51 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  
(14-01-2015 02:35 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  Please enlighten us. What is your extensive background in physics?
Doc

I have been working as a physicist and pharmaceutical research chemist for about a decade. I have worked for organizations such as SmithKline Beecham, Merck Research Labs and Johnson&Johnson R&D

The close proximity to pharmaceuticals explains a lot about your consciousness.
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14-01-2015, 03:05 PM
RE: My Argument For God
(14-01-2015 02:56 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(14-01-2015 02:33 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  All very good questions. I am simply presenting my ideas because mainstream science has nothing to say on the matter other than ideological arguments.

I'd say it is because mainstream science is suspending judgement while looking for ways to test conjectures in order to find evidence. You are leaping over that to assume that what sounds good to you is true. That is not a reasonable path to understanding.

Quote:Also I'm saying your infinite (eternal) nature is a property, like any property in physics, not at all dependent upon your 'beliefs'.

Which is your belief. My belief is that your belief is an assertion without sufficient grounds to accept. As I said before, even if everything you claim is true it doesn't imply that "I" have an eternal nature in any meaningful sense, nor that this "consciousness" that you think exists "outside the box" is actually conscious in any way comparable to the consciousness that I experience.

You've gone past what science has demonstrated with a lot of wishful thinking and wrapped it up in technobabble to disguise the fact that you have nothing of substance to support your claims.

Ok, and you and your science (which laughably you don't even understand) has nothing to say on the matter.

Our minuscule human perception blinds us to the fact of how little we know. Heres an example: in the 1400s all of the people on earth were intent that the earth was the center of the universe, they all BELIEVED it, they all knew it--but it did not alter the structure of the universe in any way. They did not doubt it, there was not even an alternative model to doubt. The universe not being the center of the universe was completely beyond the human experience. Still, the structure of the universe did no change.

I don't care if you don't believe what I am saying, that has no effect whatsoever on it not being true. What I have presented is axiom. And all of you have yet to refute it, or don't even understand that i am using YOUR science you love and cherish and yet you don't even know what I'm talking about…sad really.
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14-01-2015, 03:06 PM
RE: My Argument For God
(14-01-2015 02:58 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  I'm still waiting for any one of you to refute what I'm saying, but you can't.

Uh-huh.

Reply to THIS.

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14-01-2015, 03:07 PM
RE: My Argument For God
(14-01-2015 03:01 PM)pablo Wrote:  
(14-01-2015 02:51 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  I have been working as a physicist and pharmaceutical research chemist for about a decade. I have worked for organizations such as SmithKline Beecham, Merck Research Labs and Johnson&Johnson R&D

The close proximity to pharmaceuticals explains a lot about your consciousness.

funny, but I'm still waiting for a coherent reply.
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14-01-2015, 03:08 PM
RE: My Argument For God
(14-01-2015 12:19 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  I have been browsing these forums for a couple days and have yet to see any compelling evidence that supports any of your atheistic beliefs, and also, on the contrary no evidence presented by any theist that is even remotely compelling, except for "well i guess I'd rather just cling to my fragile belief system which is based solely off the bible." Or the typical atheist who literally interprets every biblical passage and is like "HA THESE ARE A BUNCH OF FAIRY TALES, DAWKINS MUST BE RIGHT!!!"

You've spent a couple of days here and you still think there are "atheistic beliefs"? Consider

And frankly, your representation of what the "typical atheist" says sounds more like a guess based upon stereotypes than on perusing this site.

Regarding NDE's, you admit that they are subjective and try to justify their importance by pointing out their frequency. Numerous NDE's are proof or evidence of nothing except that there is a commonality in the way that our brains function.

If I understand the gist of your argument (and I'm admittedly not sure that I do), you're saying that all existence is part of one large consciousness of which we are all therefore a part. And that consciousness is "God". Even if I were to buy that line of thought, "God" then only seems like the word assigned to that definition and is so far removed from what people normally mean by it, then why use that particular word at all? This has nothing to do with creation, super powers, interaction with humans, etc. So why do you think any of it is evidence of a god?

And, by the way, it would be nice to know which god you believe in.

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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