My Arts Geared Brain is Too Stupid for Atheism
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
06-12-2013, 11:07 AM
RE: My Arts Geared Brain is Too Stupid for Atheism
(06-12-2013 10:54 AM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  
(06-12-2013 10:50 AM)QueenTit Wrote:  Thanks for all of your support and responses (particularly WitchSabrina and Cathym112).

....Undecided

Haha oh boy I didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings. I just felt like they were the most sensitive to my feelings.
The main thing that has been said that has actually REALLY made the biggest impact on me throughout this whole thread is:
"I had a friend ask me a few months back, "What if you're wrong"? I said, "Impossible, I know it's true that I don't believe in God".

And that's all it is, a lack of a belief. You don't have to defend it, and it's true that you are an Atheist by virtue of that lack of a belief alone."

So thank you for that. I feel like I was in search of permission for it to be okay that I just don't believe it, and you gave me that.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like QueenTit's post
06-12-2013, 11:28 AM (This post was last modified: 06-12-2013 11:38 AM by Raptor Jesus.)
RE: My Arts Geared Brain is Too Stupid for Atheism
(06-12-2013 11:07 AM)QueenTit Wrote:  
(06-12-2013 10:54 AM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  ....Undecided

Haha oh boy I didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings. I just felt like they were the most sensitive to my feelings.
The main thing that has been said that has actually REALLY made the biggest impact on me throughout this whole thread is:
"I had a friend ask me a few months back, "What if you're wrong"? I said, "Impossible, I know it's true that I don't believe in God".

And that's all it is, a lack of a belief. You don't have to defend it, and it's true that you are an Atheist by virtue of that lack of a belief alone."

So thank you for that. I feel like I was in search of permission for it to be okay that I just don't believe it, and you gave me that.

I was just playing Blush wasn't really fishing for a complement Big Grin

...
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-12-2013, 11:44 AM
RE: My Arts Geared Brain is Too Stupid for Atheism
(06-12-2013 10:50 AM)QueenTit Wrote:  Thanks for all of your support and responses (particularly WitchSabrina and Cathym112). I'm so thankful to have found this community last month as I didn't expect to find an outlet like this for the struggles I'm having.
The main question I think a lot of the responses are asking is why I feel the need to defend atheism. I think, because I was so IN IT when it came to christianity that I know all of the christian responses to any non-scientific argument. There's a this christian voice in my head that tells me how I would have responded to any of the arguments I've read for atheism. NOW, I can see that those responses were illogical, but I also know that if I was to encounter a christian who argued those things, I don't have anything to really come back at them with because I understand how they think. Honestly, I think I'm putting too much pressure on myself to try to convince others of my position (I'm a recovering people-pleaser Smile)
I do have this personal desire to find hard evidence that I wasn't aware of when I believed. I think the biggest reason I feel this pressure to be prepared with info. is that my boyfriend's family (particularly his mom) are devout mormons. His mom continuously broached the subject of religion with me until my boyfriend had a talk with her about it and after that she's sent missionaries to our place multiple times. Up until this point, I've just told them that I don't believe and that I don't have the desire to debate with them about it, but they continue to pry and I HATE being in that situation and sounding like someone who just doesn't believe because of feelings.
I understand a lot of you who are saying that atheism is kind of the default and that religion should be the one to have to prove itself, but in my world, it's been the opposite, which is part of the reason I think I feel this way.
Many of your responses have been very kind and I really appreciate them. You've helped me to feel more OK with not being able to remember all of the data, and confirmed for me that it's perfectly fine to just not believe because you don;t believe.


Mess with the missionary's faith and ask annoying questions you know they can't answer. Such as, the questions that brought about your initial skepticism.

Guys stopped by my apartment once when I was first going to college and I toyed with them.

"Where do you go when you die?"

"You get buried."

"Blah blah blah something something... do you want to pray to save your soul?"

"I don't have time."

"You don't have time to save your soul?"

"No. I have homework." Beavis and Butthead (this was quite a while ago) clearly playing in the background.

"Okay something Jesus whatever."

"Yeah, bye."

I didn't really challenge them, I was just rude. You could always do that, too, I suppose.

This is the signature.

http://www.FromNothingGameStudios.com
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-12-2013, 11:54 AM
RE: My Arts Geared Brain is Too Stupid for Atheism
(06-12-2013 11:44 AM)Skeptic Gamer Wrote:  ...
Mess with the missionary's faith and ask annoying questions you know they can't answer. Such as, the questions that brought about your initial skepticism.
...

I usually don't bother with them, but sometime I feel sorry for them and let them give their pitch. They'll make assertions they expect me to assume to be true. I don't, and that confuses them. I then ask follow up questions, and they make more assertions they expect me to assume to be true. Again I don't, and ask more follow up questions.

In my experience, and this may not be true of others but, I've never received any door to door missionaries that were any good at it. They don't know how to defend their faith, only how to assert it, and hope that you accept it.

Challenge them even slightly and they just go away, and don't return.

But that's just been my experience anyway.

...
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-12-2013, 12:10 PM
RE: My Arts Geared Brain is Too Stupid for Atheism
(05-12-2013 05:13 PM)QueenTit Wrote:  Sometimes (okay, most of the time) I feel like I'm not intelligent enough to be a "good" atheist ("good" meaning one who can factually, effectively defend WHY and who is able to passionately argue for the side of logic and reason). Or, perhaps more specifically: I'm not smart (I'm talking about possessing the ability to grasp and process information) in the right areas.
I've never been math or science minded. I have an arts/english brain and clearly, based on my past, I haven't been a critical/free thinker. I'm in awe of the teens on here who are being raised in Christian homes but who have the type of minds/personalities to question and not just follow blindly.
My deconversion definitely consisted of reading and researching and listening to almost all of the podcasts in The Thinking Atheist archive. I'm reading Misquoting Jesus by Bart D. Ehrman now. But, if I'm honest, I find it all very hard to retain. I know that I don't believe in a god because I know that I've read the evidence and it's convinced me... I just have a hard time recalling that evidence if it's not right in front of me. And, again, to be honest, I find a lot of the scientific proof to be dry and I have to force myself to read it and focus.
The thing that really keeps me strong in my anti-theism is this very strong feeling of knowing there is no god. But feelings don't really mean jackshit because they're really all Christians have to rely on and we all know they're completely deluded.
This is getting longer than I anticipated (I have this fear of not being understood, so I over-explain a lot) but I'm just wondering if there are any others who feel this way? I'm not really confident that I fully explained how I feel about this, but perhaps some of your comments might allow me to respond with more clarity.
You sound intelligent to me. Don't worry, no one is a whiz at every subject. When it comes to memory (or any other area), some people are certainly more gifted than others, but if that's not your area, you're probably more gifted in arts and English.

As for defending atheism, you really don't need to do so if you don't want to. You don't need to be an activist or initiate debates with theists. But, in those rare moments where maybe someone is pressing you to defend your atheism, you really still don't have to - make them defend their position instead. All you have to do is tell them to produce the evidence for their belief. They will have to do all the remembering and all you will need to do is point out why their "evidence" is nothing but a leap of faith in every instance (because it is).

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Impulse's post
06-12-2013, 12:17 PM
RE: My Arts Geared Brain is Too Stupid for Atheism
(06-12-2013 11:07 AM)QueenTit Wrote:  
(06-12-2013 10:54 AM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  ....Undecided

Haha oh boy I didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings. I just felt like they were the most sensitive to my feelings.
The main thing that has been said that has actually REALLY made the biggest impact on me throughout this whole thread is:
"I had a friend ask me a few months back, "What if you're wrong"? I said, "Impossible, I know it's true that I don't believe in God".

And that's all it is, a lack of a belief. You don't have to defend it, and it's true that you are an Atheist by virtue of that lack of a belief alone."

So thank you for that. I feel like I was in search of permission for it to be okay that I just don't believe it, and you gave me that.

Yeah. I had to bow to him for that one. In fact, I'm yoinking that sentence to add to my [terrible] memory banks.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Cathym112's post
06-12-2013, 12:18 PM
RE: My Arts Geared Brain is Too Stupid for Atheism
(06-12-2013 11:28 AM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  
(06-12-2013 11:07 AM)QueenTit Wrote:  Haha oh boy I didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings. I just felt like they were the most sensitive to my feelings.
The main thing that has been said that has actually REALLY made the biggest impact on me throughout this whole thread is:
"I had a friend ask me a few months back, "What if you're wrong"? I said, "Impossible, I know it's true that I don't believe in God".

And that's all it is, a lack of a belief. You don't have to defend it, and it's true that you are an Atheist by virtue of that lack of a belief alone."

So thank you for that. I feel like I was in search of permission for it to be okay that I just don't believe it, and you gave me that.

I was just playing Blush wasn't really fishing for a complement Big Grin

liar Rolleyes

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Cathym112's post
06-12-2013, 12:21 PM (This post was last modified: 06-12-2013 12:31 PM by Raptor Jesus.)
RE: My Arts Geared Brain is Too Stupid for Atheism
(06-12-2013 11:54 AM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  
(06-12-2013 11:44 AM)Skeptic Gamer Wrote:  ...
Mess with the missionary's faith and ask annoying questions you know they can't answer. Such as, the questions that brought about your initial skepticism.
...

I usually don't bother with them, but sometime I feel sorry for them and let them give their pitch. They'll make assertions they expect me to assume to be true. I don't, and that confuses them. I then ask follow up questions, and they make more assertions they expect me to assume to be true. Again I don't, and ask more follow up questions.

In my experience, and this may not be true of others but, I've never received any door to door missionaries that were any good at it. They don't know how to defend their faith, only how to assert it, and hope that you accept it.

Challenge them even slightly and they just go away, and don't return.

But that's just been my experience anyway.

Actually I want to add to that really quick...

At my former house, I used to get JWs every single weekend. One particular time, this older couple came to my door. Trying to politely dismiss them, I said, "I'm busy right now, maybe some other time". I thought they would get this was a blow off, but they took it as an invite to come back the very next weekend.

So now I felt bad for them thinking I told them to come back, and they were a cute elderly couple so I figured... alright... let's hear it.....

In their pitch, at some point they asked how I believe humans got here. I said evolution. The look on there faces! Ohmy They had seemed shocked, like they didn't really believe that anyone in the real world actually believe in "evolution".

The old lady said, incredulously, "...evolution?!" and confidently, thinking she had got me now, because that's just ridiculous, she asked, "So you believe monkeys gave birth to people?"

I said, "Of course not, no one believes that."

Now let me back up one second. I majored in Physical Anthropology. Among other things, that is the study of human evolution. This is what I know. So right there, on the spot, on my porch, I gave her a very detail oriented crash course lecture on human evolution. VERY detailed.

By the time I was done they had nothing to say (not because I convinced them, but because they didn't know how to refute or respond to the information I had just given them). There was no follow up pitch. Nothing about Jesus did this or that. No stories about heaven, or of the salvation of my eternal soul. She said nothing except quietly gave up and meekly asked, "...could I just leave this pamphlet with you?"

I said, "sure" and took it.

They said, "Have a nice day."

I said, "You too." and no one from their church ever returned again.

...
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 7 users Like Raptor Jesus's post
06-12-2013, 03:23 PM
RE: My Arts Geared Brain is Too Stupid for Atheism
(06-12-2013 12:21 PM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  Actually I want to add to that really quick...

At my former house, I used to get JWs every single weekend. One particular time, this older couple came to my door. Trying to politely dismiss them, I said, "I'm busy right now, maybe some other time". I thought they would get this was a blow off, but they took it as an invite to come back the very next weekend.

So now I felt bad for them thinking I told them to come back, and they were a cute elderly couple so I figured... alright... let's hear it.....

In their pitch, at some point they asked how I believe humans got here. I said evolution. The look on there faces! Ohmy They had seemed shocked, like they didn't really believe that anyone in the real world actually believe in "evolution".

The old lady said, incredulously, "...evolution?!" and confidently, thinking she had got me now, because that's just ridiculous, she asked, "So you believe monkeys gave birth to people?"

I said, "Of course not, no one believes that."

Now let me back up one second. I majored in Physical Anthropology. Among other things, that is the study of human evolution. This is what I know. So right there, on the spot, on my porch, I gave her a very detail oriented crash course lecture on human evolution. VERY detailed.

By the time I was done they had nothing to say (not because I convinced them, but because they didn't know how to refute or respond to the information I had just given them). There was no follow up pitch. Nothing about Jesus did this or that. No stories about heaven, or of the salvation of my eternal soul. She said nothing except quietly gave up and meekly asked, "...could I just leave this pamphlet with you?"

I said, "sure" and took it.

They said, "Have a nice day."

I said, "You too." and no one from their church ever returned again.

Haha, this is awesome, and ideally, the way I'd like to handle the situations. Which brings me back to my original problem that I don't have the memory to recite, as you did, the evidence for human evolution.
The problem for me with being rude or just slamming the door in their face, as some have suggested, is that these people are an extension of my future mother-in-law. And while I could take the position that she is the one initiating the rude behavior by sending them to our house so there isn't anything wrong with me responding in a rude manor, for my own sanity and peace of mind, I have to look at it from her perspective of wanting her son & I to spend eternity in heaven with her.
I also don't want to be rude to them because I know their perspective as my boyfriend's sister is on a mission right now. Their hearts are genuinely kind but they are just SO incredibly misguided and brainwashed. I used to be indoctrinated and so I understand, in many ways, where they're coming from. If you believe you have a message that will alter someone's life and eternity for the better, I understand feeling like it's a noble cause to go and share that message. I would REALLY prefer to address them calmly and kindly with intelligence and reason. But since I haven't had the mental capability to do that, I've just told them my story and why I personally don't believe.
It's a unique situation because they will continue to come to our house probably forever because of my boyfriend's mom.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-12-2013, 03:44 PM
RE: My Arts Geared Brain is Too Stupid for Atheism
A lot of apologetics consists of argument built on argument, with presupposition built on presupposition. It takes time to understand these wonderful edifices before one can begin to take them apart. The measure of 'reasonableness' seems to be on the side of the unbeliever, however.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: