My Aunt Cathy vs. The Poor
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17-07-2015, 07:20 PM
RE: My Aunt Cathy vs. The Poor
Ditto.

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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17-07-2015, 10:49 PM
RE: My Aunt Cathy vs. The Poor
Aww you guys are so nice!

And now my Facebook feed won't be 100% clogged with fundie insanity that makes me want to tear my hair out!

I love my family. Dodgy

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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18-07-2015, 01:48 AM (This post was last modified: 18-07-2015 02:12 AM by Szuchow.)
RE: My Aunt Cathy vs. The Poor
So it appears that drug testing is indeed idiotic but opinion about welfare recipients is kinda understandable if contradictory with professed faith. It could be coping mechanism or belief that if I managed then other's should also. Climbing from poverty could harden one heart as is the case with me and maybe with your aunt. I too don't have much sympathy for welfare recipents (though in Poland situation looks different I would say) but I (grudgingly) accept that state help is needed.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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18-07-2015, 02:18 AM
RE: My Aunt Cathy vs. The Poor
(18-07-2015 01:48 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  So it appears that drug testing is indeed idiotic but opinion about welfare recipients is kinda understandable if contradictory with professed faith. It could be coping mechanism or belief that if I managed then other's should also. Climbing from poverty could harden one heart as is the case with me and maybe with your aunt. I too don't have much sympathy for welfare recipents (though in Poland situation looks different I would say) but I (grudgingly) accept that state help is needed.

Makes me think of this artwork I saw recently:
[Image: steppingon_zpsyr2bwq62.jpg]

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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18-07-2015, 02:29 AM
RE: My Aunt Cathy vs. The Poor
(18-07-2015 02:18 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(18-07-2015 01:48 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  So it appears that drug testing is indeed idiotic but opinion about welfare recipients is kinda understandable if contradictory with professed faith. It could be coping mechanism or belief that if I managed then other's should also. Climbing from poverty could harden one heart as is the case with me and maybe with your aunt. I too don't have much sympathy for welfare recipents (though in Poland situation looks different I would say) but I (grudgingly) accept that state help is needed.

Makes me think of this artwork I saw recently:
[Image: steppingon_zpsyr2bwq62.jpg]

Not really, I worked others could too. If someone don't try to improve his lot I don't have much sympathy to such person.

While I don't think that this picture fits I wouldn't say I'm overly kind person, I'm concenred with freedom not well-being; I don't really care for struggles of others as other hadn't cared about mine.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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18-07-2015, 11:07 AM
RE: My Aunt Cathy vs. The Poor
Szuchow - Read the article. The whole point of it is that they DO work, the ones who are not so mentally disabled or physically handicapped that they cannot. The whole "lazy Welfare Queens sitting on their asses taking my money" thing is a political invention of Ronald Reagan, who made it up, and people have been repeating it in this country ever since, even though it's demonstrably false. It's a basic failure of human empathy, and people who prefer a damaging, self-serving myth over the reality. Also, as any good sociology course will teach, people who "made it on their own" have numerous advantages, in one way or another, that not everyone shares, either from family, or social position, or mental/physical health, or educational opportunities, that others don't have.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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18-07-2015, 12:08 PM (This post was last modified: 18-07-2015 12:15 PM by Szuchow.)
RE: My Aunt Cathy vs. The Poor
(18-07-2015 11:07 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Szuchow - Read the article. The whole point of it is that they DO work, the ones who are not so mentally disabled or physically handicapped that they cannot. The whole "lazy Welfare Queens sitting on their asses taking my money" thing is a political invention of Ronald Reagan, who made it up, and people have been repeating it in this country ever since, even though it's demonstrably false. It's a basic failure of human empathy, and people who prefer a damaging, self-serving myth over the reality. Also, as any good sociology course will teach, people who "made it on their own" have numerous advantages, in one way or another, that not everyone shares, either from family, or social position, or mental/physical health, or educational opportunities, that others don't have.

I already read it, Poland is not America though so issue here looks different, not entirely but it's certainly not the same.

And people who made it on their own could have numerous advantages, sure, but that's not mean they are supposed to help other who don't have these advantages they allegedly have; if I worked shitty jobs in country and abroad then certainly others could too. If they choose (I say choose cause it's not about lack of some skills, I worked as unskilled labourer) not do it I could not care less.

Having said that I think welfare is needed and it should encompass such thing as free contraceptives for example. I may not have much sympathy for others but this don't mean I want them to suffer.

I'm not interested in hearing excuses/complaints about life hardships though - I had tough life too. So what? It does not entitle me to special treatment.

In short - I'm not against welfare for it's needed even if only for sake of childrens (free contraceptives and free/very cheap abortion - childrens should not pay for their parent's bad decisions and with it they obviously won't have) I only dislike those who complain how they were fucked in life while doing little or nothing to improve their lot.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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18-07-2015, 12:21 PM
RE: My Aunt Cathy vs. The Poor
(18-07-2015 12:08 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  I already read it, Poland is not America though so issue here looks different, not entirely but it's certainly not the same.

And people who made it on their own could have numerous advantages, sure, but that's not mean they are supposed to help other who don't have these advantages they allegedly have; if I worked shitty jobs in country and abroad then certainly others could too. If they choose (I say choose cause it's not about lack of some skills, I worked as unskilled labourer) not do it I could not care less.

Having said that I think welfare is needed and it should encompass such thing as free contraceptives for example. I may not have much sympathy for others but this don't mean I want them to suffer.

I'm not interested in hearing excuses/complaints about life hardships though - I had tough life too. So what? It does not entitle me to special treatment.

In short - I'm not against welfare for it's needed even if only for sake of childrens (free contraceptives and free/very cheap abortion - childrens should not pay for their parent's bad decisions and with it they obviously won't have) I only dislike those who complain how they were fucked in life while doing little or nothing to improve their lot.

I said "read the article" because it was about how the people on welfare typically ARE working those shitty jobs you talk about but (at least in America) it's still not enough to survive on. Yet people keeeeeeeep saying "Well I work", as though they don't. It's that part of the myth that I can't understand, not only that it exists but that it's so resistant to counter-evidence.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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18-07-2015, 12:27 PM
RE: My Aunt Cathy vs. The Poor
Your aunt's outlook has already been reduced to parody.

[Image: republifeg_590_427.jpg]

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
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18-07-2015, 12:34 PM
RE: My Aunt Cathy vs. The Poor
(18-07-2015 12:21 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(18-07-2015 12:08 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  I already read it, Poland is not America though so issue here looks different, not entirely but it's certainly not the same.

And people who made it on their own could have numerous advantages, sure, but that's not mean they are supposed to help other who don't have these advantages they allegedly have; if I worked shitty jobs in country and abroad then certainly others could too. If they choose (I say choose cause it's not about lack of some skills, I worked as unskilled labourer) not do it I could not care less.

Having said that I think welfare is needed and it should encompass such thing as free contraceptives for example. I may not have much sympathy for others but this don't mean I want them to suffer.

I'm not interested in hearing excuses/complaints about life hardships though - I had tough life too. So what? It does not entitle me to special treatment.

In short - I'm not against welfare for it's needed even if only for sake of childrens (free contraceptives and free/very cheap abortion - childrens should not pay for their parent's bad decisions and with it they obviously won't have) I only dislike those who complain how they were fucked in life while doing little or nothing to improve their lot.

I said "read the article" because it was about how the people on welfare typically ARE working those shitty jobs you talk about but (at least in America) it's still not enough to survive on. Yet people keeeeeeeep saying "Well I work", as though they don't. It's that part of the myth that I can't understand, not only that it exists but that it's so resistant to counter-evidence.

Here you can survive (not much else though) on shitty jobs. Though definition of shitty job and thus payment for it may wary from region to region and part of pay is under the table in some places.

I'm not surprised by this myth being resistant to counter-evidence, it's kinda hard to believe that one can't survive on his pay. Survive not lead a good life. And, well it's not about evidence but belief I think; some may preffer to think that those on welfare are lazy and if that's the case then no ammount of evidence will overcome said belief.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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