My Brother:I believe in God because i just want to believe.
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28-02-2014, 11:16 AM (This post was last modified: 28-02-2014 11:23 AM by IndianAtheist.)
My Brother:I believe in God because i just want to believe.
Ah.. man i was just having a healthy tea time conversation with my brother and when suddenly my mother started talking about spirituality bullshit and given how i am a naive atheist i cursorily stirred up a conversation which kinda just went on like this :-

My Brother: I believe in God because.. how else do you think i breathe?? ITS GAWD!

Me: Well that's you inhaling oxygen into your lungs not "GAWD"

My Brother: You don't understand it.. you just got to have "Faith" and follow your heart and feelings

Me: Then your faith is both irrational&blind brother.

My Brother: So be it! i believe in it because i just want to! you cannot apply logic&reason to spirituality.

My mother: Isn't it funny that you can find 1000 reasons to NOT believe in God but not one reason to believe?

Me: Well that's ironic because ma you can't provide me with a single logical reason to believe in God.. Laugh out load

My Brother: How else do you think life got here huh? it was a supernatural force! how else do you think we are special?

Me: Now why the hell do you keep saying "I don't know this therefore God"!? just stop this and give me a valid reason to support your faith and what makes you think that we humans are special?

My Brother: We are the most intelligent and we know right from wrong and other animals don't.. and we are the only beings capable of becoming Gods and standing besides them.

Me: Intelligence is merely an accidental byproduct of evolution and it does not mean we're special it merely means that our ancestors found a way to use intelligence to survive... it always has been "Survival of the fittest" not "Survival of the most intelligent" if that was true all then animals would be like humans but they clearly aren't and morality isn't evidence for God its evidence for evolution because it clearly isn't uniform in all human beings and it differs from time to time and region to region.. if morality really comes from God he must have a serious multiple personality disorder Laughat

My mother: Its pointless talking to an atheist like you you'll never understand,you're spiritually ignorant and knowledge without spirituality is blind.

Me: I mean i really want to believe too! i just can't find one good reason to believe in it these myths as literal history,i mean seriously mother would you believe in Adam&eve story? then why do you believe in Manu&Satrupa?

why do you insist on ignoring the science behind everything and grasping onto illogical supernatural explanations?

*No answer* Rolleyes

And what about Archaeology&Paleontology? all worldwide myths claim that humans&life was created just when earth was created and that's clearly hogwash! hominid fossils cannot be found anymore than 7 million years and life on earth has been around like 3.5 billion years!

What audacity do we even have to claim such egocentric bullshit? our species isn't even a billion year old.

My brother: Those paleontologists make up all sorts of fake fossils out of plaster of paris.

Me: Facepalm can you just give me ONE GOOD REASON to believe in God? just ONE!

My Mother: You are taking everything for granted! you should be thankful to God for what you have, you are being an ignorant fool!

Me: Well many Scientists clearly dedicate their whole effing life in studying your I̶m̶a̶g̶i̶n̶a̶r̶y̶ God's creations and they don't come the conclusion that "Gawd did it" they find natural forces in perfect harmony creating these wonderful things.

My brother: Why don't you go around temples with a loudspeaker asking these questions? all those millions of folks certainly seem to believe in a God.

Me: Because they are not my family and FYI there was a time when "Millions of people" also used to believe that earth was Flat that doesn't make it any less stupid.

My Brother: What about the time when a nice person helped us at the airport? that was clearly God helping us.

Me: [Image: lEHArUa.gif].. i've got nothing.


So all in all this was pretty much my first open religious conversation with my brother and surprisingly when it comes to faith&religion he just isn't as calculated&pragmatic as he is in trigonometryTongue

Dreams/Hallucinations/delusions are not evidence
Wishful thinking is not evidence
Disproved statements&Illogical conclusions are not evidence
Logical fallacies&Unsubstantiated claims are not evidence
Vague prophecies is not evidence
Data that requires a certain belief is not evidence
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28-02-2014, 11:27 AM
RE: My Brother:I believe in God because i just want to believe.
Hahahaha. A giant argument from ignorance. Lots of appeals to popularity and emotion. Some anecdotes. Begging the question to.

Check this out https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/
So that next time you can get lots of laughs.

In fact get a pen and notebook and write all logical fallacies down on paper and present it back to them.
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28-02-2014, 12:34 PM
RE: My Brother:I believe in God because i just want to believe.
What I've found recently is presenting logical fallacies to these types of believers is pointless because most of the time they can't even grasp what you mean or understand the significance of pointing out their obvious mistakes. When you finally get a point across to them that they can't defend against, they put their heads in the sand or claim they aren't smart enough to respond to that and would want you to see their (insert useless religious leader here).

Check out my atheism blog. It's just a blog, no ads, no revenue, no gods.
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Atheism promotes critical thinking; theism promotes hypocritical thinking. -- Me
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28-02-2014, 12:39 PM
RE: My Brother:I believe in God because i just want to believe.
(28-02-2014 12:34 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  What I've found recently is presenting logical fallacies to these types of believers is pointless because most of the time they can't even grasp what you mean or understand the significance of pointing out their obvious mistakes. When you finally get a point across to them that they can't defend against, they put their heads in the sand or claim they aren't smart enough to respond to that and would want you to see their (insert useless religious leader here).

Well I don't care if they will understand it or not. I just like collecting logical fallacies. Makes me happy.
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28-02-2014, 12:41 PM
RE: My Brother:I believe in God because i just want to believe.
I hear ya, but just remarking that I've done what you advised and that was the reaction I got.

Check out my atheism blog. It's just a blog, no ads, no revenue, no gods.
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Atheism promotes critical thinking; theism promotes hypocritical thinking. -- Me
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28-02-2014, 12:44 PM
RE: My Brother:I believe in God because i just want to believe.
What is your goal in the debate? I gave up on the debates for the sake of educating the opposition because I am tired of listening to the absurd shit. From now on I collect fallacies for my own personal entertainment.
However I am studying speaking and rhetoric and watch debates so I can learn deconstruction tactics so I can demolish opposition when I'm in a mood. But am not expecting any results. I will simply present their own arguments in the most absurd way back to them and if they don't understand it I don't care.
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28-02-2014, 01:16 PM
RE: My Brother:I believe in God because i just want to believe.
(28-02-2014 12:44 PM)donotwant Wrote:  What is your goal in the debate?
As i mentioned earlier i got sick of my mother's rambling about spirituality shit and stirred up a debate which opened a can of worms.
Quote:I will simply present their own arguments in the most absurd way back to them and if they don't understand it I don't care.
I've actually tried this and they usually tend to ignore it as if my analogy to their flawed argument is invalid or they conjure up some other new arguments to prove their point.
(28-02-2014 12:34 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  they put their heads in the sand or claim they aren't smart enough to respond to that and would want you to see their (insert useless religious leader here).
Or they bombard you with non-sequiturs that makes you lose your train of thought.

I really hate talking about religious stuff with my mother because she's damn impossible to talk with when confronted with dissenting opinions,my only concern in this whole debate was my brother as i know that he is more logical and level headed than i am and more importantly he isn't a dishonest debater... he practically admits that he has no valid reason to believe that God exists... he just has "faith" in absurd ancient myths.

Dreams/Hallucinations/delusions are not evidence
Wishful thinking is not evidence
Disproved statements&Illogical conclusions are not evidence
Logical fallacies&Unsubstantiated claims are not evidence
Vague prophecies is not evidence
Data that requires a certain belief is not evidence
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28-02-2014, 01:21 PM
RE: My Brother:I believe in God because i just want to believe.
Ask him why he believes. What is so attractive about belief in god. You know you might get to know your brother better and love him more Wink

Btw when you know why people believe it's easier to argue with them in such a way to let them go of it.
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28-02-2014, 01:29 PM
RE: My Brother:I believe in God because i just want to believe.
Sadly, I get these from my parents too. My mom wrote me a heartfelt note about how she believes be she wants to believe. Then I get into this internal debate of "do I actually debate this and hurt her feelings...or just let it go?"

There's really no way to beat the God Gap argument, or convince someone to abandon the emotional satisfaction of religion.

Well...maybe to abandon the emotional satisfaction, but I really don't see a way around the God gap. "A caused B. Well yea, because God made A". Or the, "I don't know what caused B. See? Proof of God right there!" <facepalm> Kind of reminds me of the last episode of The Office when Oscar explains Kevin's magic number that he uses to balance all the accounting books, lol.

The religion of one age, is the literary entertainment of the next.
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28-02-2014, 01:30 PM
RE: My Brother:I believe in God because i just want to believe.
(28-02-2014 01:29 PM)=jesse= Wrote:  Sadly, I get these from my parents too. My mom wrote me a heartfelt note about how she believes be she wants to believe. Then I get into this internal debate of "do I actually debate this and hurt her feelings...or just let it go?"

There's really no way to beat the God Gap argument, or convince someone to abandon the emotional satisfaction of religion.

Well...maybe to abandon the emotional satisfaction, but I really don't see a way around the God gap. "A caused B. Well yea, because God made A". Or the, "I don't know what caused B. See? Proof of God right there!" <facepalm> Kind of reminds me of the last episode of The Office when Oscar explains Kevin's magic number that he uses to balance all the accounting books, lol.

Explain what argument from ignorance is with examples of things which people used religious explanation for which then got replaced by scientific one.
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