My Brother the Islamist
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16-09-2012, 12:07 AM
My Brother the Islamist
Hey, moderators.

I think this belongs here, but if it needs to be moved, go right ahead.

Sup, erbody.

I just watched a documentary called My Brother the Islamist. It's about two English step-brothers, one the filmmaker, the other a convert to fundamentalist Islam. I found it quite interesting.





Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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16-09-2012, 01:36 AM
RE: My Brother the Islamist
Yes, very interesting, indeed and, at times, quite nauseating. All that hate.....

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16-09-2012, 02:53 AM
RE: My Brother the Islamist
I've yet to meet anyone so unbalanced in South East Asia. Sure there are the mis-educated beliefs but I don't observe the hate / disgust that this guy feels.
Muslims here are more like the christians I know back home in the UK, i.e. it's just a tradition thing.

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16-09-2012, 03:09 AM
RE: My Brother the Islamist
Thanks for the documentary

I'd say that's the thing with converts. If they convert for religious reasons they obviously have to care quite a bit. Which I guess makes them prone to more radical believes?
I personally would find it pointless to convert from lukewarm christianity to lukewarm islam. There's a hurdle you have to overcome which will only be done if it actually means something to you. Well at least if you don't have to fear for your life if you have the "wrong" religion (or other reasons like your love having the other religion)

And I can't see much of a difference between the islamists in the documentary and fundamentalist christians... Both act as sects are supposed to. Segregation (in-group/out-group), Hate, Fear etc...
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16-09-2012, 03:21 AM (This post was last modified: 16-09-2012 03:28 AM by fstratzero.)
RE: My Brother the Islamist
The perspective I gained was...

I don't agree with some of the United Kingdom's governmental policies.

I disagree with Islam.

My perspective hasn't change.

The world wouldn't be a utopia with out religion, but there would be less make believe to kill each other with.

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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
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16-09-2012, 03:25 AM
RE: My Brother the Islamist
I had an interesting talk with my Muslim friend the other day. He's a really nice guy and probably one of the more open minded religious folk I've come to know. Him and I were talking about the attack on the embassy due to all the anger that sparked up. He talked about how many of these countries where fundamentalism exists, people are raised to feel hateful, angry, bitter, etc. He said many of them are in places with shitty medical care, all they know is poverty and disease.

While I mentioned that it's a poor excuse for poor behavior, at the same time, areas in the USA where poverty and disease and communities where people are treated badly the crime rate is VERY high. Toss on some fundamentalism and reason to feel like you've got a purpose, hand a guy a gun and tell him to do something, and he'll likely not bat an eyelash at you for it.

I have mixed feelings about it. At one point, I thought all muslims were these evil, angry, "toss them in a stereotype" people who wanted non-believers to just all die. I've found that's not the case at all. It's fundamental extremists that freak me the fuck out. Rightfully so with any belief, religion, political or any kind of extreme doctrine of any sort. When people believe something to the point that they will take the lives of others, or their own, it becomes something worth looking into. People say they will defend their "Freedoms" with their lives, yet every single country, and many different places all see their "freedoms" as something different, even if it means forcing it upon others.

So do I think that Muslims are bad? No, not bad any means. Do I think that FUNDAMENTALISM is crazy and scary as fuck? Uhhhhh yeah. So does my muslim friend. You could call him a pacifist in many ways. He says anyone who acts out in violence disgraces the name of Islam and Allah, and that anyone who would not act in peace is not a real muslim, or a good muslim.

Then again, we see the extremes of this type and the finger pointing in ALL RELIGIONS. Christianity: "Well anyone who would act that way isn't a real christian." and in the same case here. Finger pointing is easy to do when you feel like you're the one preaching it right, and you think others are a bad example. The problem is, little is done about the extreme examples, and people let the fear take over because of course no one wants to die, no one wants to be manipulated and no one wants to have things blown up or shot at. This is why it's so damn scary.

This simply shows that any human being of any kind can be convinced of such things. No one is immune. Psychology, pseudo effect, community, manipulation, the granting of feeling like you have power over something. These are things that can cater to anyone.
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16-09-2012, 04:01 AM
RE: My Brother the Islamist
So here's a thought...

... very hypothetical ...

If it was law that each club, society, sect, religion, etc. was made responsible (actually "accountable" is a better word) for the actions of all their members i.e. the moderates were punished (or at least tarnished) for the crimes of the extremists as would be the case for e.g. this forum if one member broke the rules by uploading porn...

Would the moderates establish self-policing processes / governance and /or would the casual members start to leave?

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16-09-2012, 05:47 AM
RE: My Brother the Islamist
Islam is peaceful. Just look at Shariah Law.

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16-09-2012, 06:10 AM
RE: My Brother the Islamist
(16-09-2012 04:01 AM)DLJ Wrote:  So here's a thought...

... very hypothetical ...

If it was law that each club, society, sect, religion, etc. was made responsible (actually "accountable" is a better word) for the actions of all their members i.e. the moderates were punished (or at least tarnished) for the crimes of the extremists as would be the case for e.g. this forum if one member broke the rules by uploading porn...

Would the moderates establish self-policing processes / governance and /or would the casual members start to leave?

Yes.

Both of those outcomes would occur; the group dynamics would vary across groups.

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16-09-2012, 06:43 AM
RE: My Brother the Islamist
(16-09-2012 06:10 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(16-09-2012 04:01 AM)DLJ Wrote:  So here's a thought...

... very hypothetical ...

If it was law that each club, society, sect, religion, etc. was made responsible (actually "accountable" is a better word) for the actions of all their members i.e. the moderates were punished (or at least tarnished) for the crimes of the extremists as would be the case for e.g. this forum if one member broke the rules by uploading porn...

Would the moderates establish self-policing processes / governance and /or would the casual members start to leave?

Yes.

Both of those outcomes would occur; the group dynamics would vary across groups.

Then maybe that's what atheist activists should be campaigning for?

Result:
Less membership
(Attempted) Control over extremists

Recalling another thread started by Ghost regarding the "extreme-meme" (or something like that) would the reduction in moderate membership mean that it would be more likely that the extremists take over?

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