My Encounter With a Homeless Man
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25-06-2013, 02:34 PM
RE: My Encounter With a Homeless Man
(25-06-2013 02:15 PM)MrAttacus Wrote:  For those of you in this thread saying that there are "good" or "bad" beggars, or that some just spend the money on drugs or whatever...how the fuck do you know this??
i have seen a guy buying weed with the money that was supposed to be for food
and that most homeless dudes smell like alcohol

As if you have a fucking clue what they do with the money?
not for everyone,but for some people
When I give money to beggars I don't care what they do with it; once they have it it isn't my money anymore, they can choose to do whatever they want with it, waste it or otherwise; its their choice. The same way that me giving them the money is my choice.
[b]your choice.
My choice is food and clothing or nothing. If a guy denies the food,even tho he said he would buy food with it,i already have an idea what they will buy.
My choice is not to give money to support the dude into buying drugs or booze
Drinking Beverage

I don't really like going outside.
It's too damn "peopley" out there....
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25-06-2013, 02:42 PM
RE: My Encounter With a Homeless Man
(25-06-2013 02:34 PM)Lightvader Wrote:  
(25-06-2013 02:15 PM)MrAttacus Wrote:  For those of you in this thread saying that there are "good" or "bad" beggars, or that some just spend the money on drugs or whatever...how the fuck do you know this??
i have seen a guy buying weed with the money that was supposed to be for food
and that most homeless dudes smell like alcohol

As if you have a fucking clue what they do with the money?
not for everyone,but for some people
When I give money to beggars I don't care what they do with it; once they have it it isn't my money anymore, they can choose to do whatever they want with it, waste it or otherwise; its their choice. The same way that me giving them the money is my choice.
[b]your choice.
My choice is food and clothing or nothing. If a guy denies the food,even tho he said he would buy food with it,i already have an idea what they will buy.
My choice is not to give money to support the dude into buying drugs or booze
Drinking Beverage

Errrm...you ought to make this post less illegible Laugh out load

"i already have an idea what they will buy" Mhmm. You keep saying that.

But whatever, its up to you, I suppose.

Drinking Beverage

"Humans always measure what they see in front of them to what they already know. They will deny anything outside of that. They are shallow lifeforms, so enthralled with superficial appearances that they fail to see the truth."
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25-06-2013, 02:53 PM
RE: My Encounter With a Homeless Man
What do you think they buy if they say they want money to buy bread,but they refuse any food you give them?
And yes,it is up to me to give money or not,and i choose not to.

I don't really like going outside.
It's too damn "peopley" out there....
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25-06-2013, 03:04 PM
RE: My Encounter With a Homeless Man
(25-06-2013 02:15 PM)MrAttacus Wrote:  For those of you in this thread saying that there are "good" or "bad" beggars, or that some just spend the money on drugs or whatever...how the fuck do you know this?? As if you have a fucking clue what they do with the money?

Earlier in the thread there are literal examples of people turning down charity (of 'the wrong sort').

Earlier in the thread there are literal examples of people saying "I need money for x" and then demonstrably not doing x.

In the case of some hypothetical blank slate panhandler, that wouldn't apply. However, if you acknowledge that money given might not be well spent, then you need to weigh the possibility of it being ill-spent against the possibility of it being well used. On balance it's likely still the better option to take that chance.

What it is not, however, is a moral absolute. Nothing is.
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25-06-2013, 03:41 PM
RE: My Encounter With a Homeless Man
(25-06-2013 03:04 PM)cjlr Wrote:  What it is not, however, is a moral absolute. Nothing is.

I'm sorry but...THIS. This right here is only the most interesting part of your post.

Nothing is a moral absolute?

Nothing? Big Grin

Really? Consider

I don't know about you, but I can immediately think of several things that are always, absolutely wrong, and maybe EVEN one that is right. Moral absolutes, if you will. Tongue

Like, errr...what was it...? Ummm...Uhhh...Unsure

Oh yeah! Smile

Rape is always, absolutely wrong.

Killing a child is always, absolutely wrong.

A person being deprived of basic necessities they need to live is always, absolutely wrong.

Letting a person suffer, or die, and being able to help them but refusing to and being impassive is always, absolutely wrong.

Restricting a person's freedom, such as freedom of thought, will, action and expression, is always, absolutely wrong.

Helping a person not to suffer is always, absolutely good.

The fact that there are people today who think that letting someone suffer and not helping them can be morally good and right, depending on how they feel about it at the time, and depending on whatever post-hoc rationalizations, assumptions and generalizations they make afterwards to make themselves feel better about their cognitive dissonance is exactly why the world is such a fuck-up, and why I don't see our species lasting much longer in this universe.

Drinking Beverage

"Humans always measure what they see in front of them to what they already know. They will deny anything outside of that. They are shallow lifeforms, so enthralled with superficial appearances that they fail to see the truth."
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25-06-2013, 03:43 PM (This post was last modified: 25-06-2013 03:48 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: My Encounter With a Homeless Man
I haven't carried cash in over a decade. I just give 'em my bottle of booze and go back and get another. Nobody's refused my generosity yet. It don't bother me none they want the booze, if I was living on the streets that's what I'd want too. Something, anything, to take the edge off.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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25-06-2013, 03:47 PM
RE: My Encounter With a Homeless Man
(25-06-2013 02:53 PM)Lightvader Wrote:  What do you think they buy if they say they want money to buy bread,but they refuse any food you give them?

I don't know if you're getting it yet, but: I DO NOT CARE what they spend the money on. That's up to them. And if I offered them food and they refused, I would leave the food with them, since they will actually need it, even if they irrationally refuse. Providing them with food and money that they have the option to use for their own good is the right thing to do, whether they actually go along with it or not.

Its not a case of helping them; its helping them to help themselves. Thumbsup

Lightvader Wrote:And yes,it is up to me to give money or not,and i choose not to.

Yeah...that's what I said? Blink

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"Humans always measure what they see in front of them to what they already know. They will deny anything outside of that. They are shallow lifeforms, so enthralled with superficial appearances that they fail to see the truth."
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25-06-2013, 03:49 PM
RE: My Encounter With a Homeless Man
(25-06-2013 03:43 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I haven't carried cash in over a decade. I just give 'em my bottle of booze and go back and get another. Nobody's refused my generosity yet. It don't bother me none they want the booze, if I was living on the streets that's what I'd want too. Something, anything, to take the edge off.

Laugh out load

Finally, someone with some common sense around here.

"Humans always measure what they see in front of them to what they already know. They will deny anything outside of that. They are shallow lifeforms, so enthralled with superficial appearances that they fail to see the truth."
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26-06-2013, 06:51 AM
My Encounter With a Homeless Man
(25-06-2013 03:41 PM)MrAttacus Wrote:  
(25-06-2013 03:04 PM)cjlr Wrote:  What it is not, however, is a moral absolute. Nothing is.

I'm sorry but...THIS. This right here is only the most interesting part of your post.

Nothing is a moral absolute?

Nothing? Big Grin

Really? Consider

I don't know about you, but I can immediately think of several things that are always, absolutely wrong, and maybe EVEN one that is right. Moral absolutes, if you will. Tongue

Like, errr...what was it...? Ummm...Uhhh...Unsure

Oh yeah! Smile

Rape is always, absolutely wrong.

Killing a child is always, absolutely wrong.

A person being deprived of basic necessities they need to live is always, absolutely wrong.

Letting a person suffer, or die, and being able to help them but refusing to and being impassive is always, absolutely wrong.

Restricting a person's freedom, such as freedom of thought, will, action and expression, is always, absolutely wrong.

Helping a person not to suffer is always, absolutely good.

The fact that there are people today who think that letting someone suffer and not helping them can be morally good and right, depending on how they feel about it at the time, and depending on whatever post-hoc rationalizations, assumptions and generalizations they make afterwards to make themselves feel better about their cognitive dissonance is exactly why the world is such a fuck-up, and why I don't see our species lasting much longer in this universe.

Drinking Beverage

You are putting the blame and responsibility on working poor and expecting them to be responsible for people slightly less poor.

You are playing right into the hands of the people wanting to hide the issue of a failed economy and instead of questioning policies of governments and actions of corporations, you seem to think that poor workers on their way to work should give them money.
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26-06-2013, 08:31 AM
RE: My Encounter With a Homeless Man
(25-06-2013 03:41 PM)MrAttacus Wrote:  I'm sorry but...THIS. This right here is only the most interesting part of your post.

Nothing is a moral absolute?

Nothing? Big Grin

Really? Consider

I don't know about you, but I can immediately think of several things that are always, absolutely wrong, and maybe EVEN one that is right. Moral absolutes, if you will. Tongue

Like, errr...what was it...? Ummm...Uhhh...Unsure

Oh yeah! Smile

Rape is always, absolutely wrong.

Killing a child is always, absolutely wrong.

A person being deprived of basic necessities they need to live is always, absolutely wrong.

Letting a person suffer, or die, and being able to help them but refusing to and being impassive is always, absolutely wrong.

Restricting a person's freedom, such as freedom of thought, will, action and expression, is always, absolutely wrong.

Helping a person not to suffer is always, absolutely good.

The fact that there are people today who think that letting someone suffer and not helping them can be morally good and right, depending on how they feel about it at the time, and depending on whatever post-hoc rationalizations, assumptions and generalizations they make afterwards to make themselves feel better about their cognitive dissonance is exactly why the world is such a fuck-up, and why I don't see our species lasting much longer in this universe.

Drinking Beverage

Except that in the real world, actions have causes and consequences. No real action can be judged in a moral vacuum.

All the traditional examples to prove such (trolley problems and the like) can seem a mite contrived, but the principle is sound.
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