My First Debate with a Theist
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12-02-2017, 10:33 AM
RE: My First Debate with a Theist
(09-02-2017 02:37 AM)minorwork Wrote:  
(08-02-2017 05:41 AM)mordant Wrote:  Religious faith (as I said, in contrast to wan hope or evidence-based trust) IS willingness to believe without proof. I am not clear on whether you see this as a virtue or a vice.
You have failed to complete in detail that faith is the willingness to ACT on belief without proof. You and others repeatedly leave out the acting part and keep only the belief. Without the acting part of the equation, the belief is not being subject to the test of truth which ... renders faith a weak expression of belief that any can hold an idea of fantasy or threat.
One's willingness to act on beliefs does reveal the degree to which a believer truly sees their belief as reflecting truth. But the depth of belief or the willingness to act on it does not MAKE the belief true. It reveals it to be subjectively "truthy" to the believer, to be sure, but inherently says zero about whether the belief is justified or should impress anyone else to believe similarly.

One can argue that the fact most evangelicals use doctors (generally not even with a requirement that these doctors substantially share their theistic beliefs, or any theistic beliefs at all, or that they disavow evolution, etc) means they lack faith in the efficacy of the rituals of anointing the sick with oil and praying for their healing, and in fact have more faith in science, or at least in god "working through" science. Indeed most will outright tell you that these healing rituals are "not for today". One can argue that the fact that they mourn their dead, pretty much with as much expression of pain and loss as anyone else, suggests a lack of "real" faith in their concepts of the afterlife. One can argue that since they exhibit the same self-preservation instincts as anyone else means they don't "really believe" that this world is not their true home and they are just passing through.

But all this seems like irrelevant overthinking of the main point we are making, which is that religious faith is not justified or justifiable to begin with, regardless of how you act or fail to act on it, or with how much conviction.
(09-02-2017 02:37 AM)minorwork Wrote:  
Quote:This whole sub-conversation was prompted as I recall by your lack of interest in explaining how faith is superior to logic / reason. I am interested in the answer to that question even though I did not originally ask it. Can you answer this question with something other than a rambling story about blow jobs? Please do regale me.
Your pronouns of "that" question have me beachcombing for the question and I've yet to find it's antecedent. Another tried to assign me positions about faith being superior to logic or some such argument with himself, but I'd rather not guess of the question of your interest.
I am simply asking,

1) Do you believe religious faith is superior to logic, and if so
2) In what way do you believe that to be so?
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