My God belief rekindled(?)
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28-01-2017, 04:12 AM
My God belief rekindled(?)
Boy, I never thought I'd reconsider calling myself an atheist after I became one.

I came across Jordan Peterson recently. I listened to him on the Joe Rogan Podcast. Here's the youtube link if you're interested:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04wyGK6k6HE

Just skip to the latter parts of the video. I'm sure there are some politically correct folks here who might not agree with him on the transgender pronoun issue, as coded into law into Canada right now, but that is not what this discussion is about.

First and foremost, what I found really odd about this guy is he made me actually think about religion in a new way. Or, rather, should I say he was the first person I came across who intelligibly confirmed my own secret belief in a unity of meaning and knowledge that covers such apparently 'irrational' beliefs as religions and various superstitions as well? Maybe so.

The guy has a very lively intellect. I can appreciate one when I see it. I absolutely loved how he described his view of reality. Now, true, I might be praising his style here instead of the actual ideas he put forward, but I feel like style does matter. And he was sufficiently in sync with my own mode of thinking that I am just able to see his point of view in a non-judgemental manner.

For all of his alarming Christianity showing through at each twist and turn, both in ideological and behavioral terms, I would say, I've never met such a fascinating religious person. He is a student of Nietzsche, a clinical psychologist, his intellect seems rigorous, wide-ranging, and plentifully creative, and yet he makes comments about religion that would simply irk the average rational skeptic to no end.

Well, he didn't irk me. What more, he got me consider leaving the label 'atheist'. And here's why. I believe Sam Harris(who held a recent podcast talking to Peterson, by the way, the results are as Blink as expected) had it right earlier in his career when he encouraged the 'atheist' community to do the same. His point was if I remember correctly, but I might add my own on top of his, that this unifying aspect of using such labels that hold no meaning but for their ideological opposition to some other idea will only do us harm. It will engage us in the standard groupthink and bias found in any other ideologically driven or inspired group mentality, be it reactionary(like political and/or social atheism) or otherwise.

I've never been afraid of putting forward my ideas, in any context, for fear of how they might be received. I'm particularly interested to hear from you guys. This is, perhaps, the main reason for this mini-essay of my thoughts. What will your reaction be?

Did you find this post provocative?

What did it make you think of?

I am interested in generating discussion. I hope this post served that purpose well, at least.

I think we sometimes sacrifice conversation on the altar of identity preservation. We are afraid of acknowledging opposite and alien viewpoints because we value who we are. We only accept change begrudgingly, and while I'm not disputing science here, or claiming the existence of any God(s), I'm thinking religion might not be the bad(morally bankrupt and devoid of meaning) thing I keep thinking it is. It could, in fact, be incredibly fascinating and something we ought to embrace, in a wider sense, culturally and ideologically. Something we perhaps already do accept but don't notice as such.

It's all in how you look at it, isn't it?
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28-01-2017, 05:03 AM
RE: My God belief rekindled(?)
Do you see atheist as a group you join or as a descriptive term?

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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28-01-2017, 05:36 AM
RE: My God belief rekindled(?)
Technically speaking, no. In practice, yes.
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28-01-2017, 05:53 AM
RE: My God belief rekindled(?)
(28-01-2017 05:36 AM)excitedpenguin Wrote:  Technically speaking, no. In practice, yes.

So not technically a group, but in practice a group?

And what you're saying is you'd prefer to not self-identify as an atheist in the sense of membership of the group, but you still have no God belief?

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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28-01-2017, 05:55 AM
RE: My God belief rekindled(?)
Incidentally if that's the case then I'd like to congratulate you on your new membership of the group "People who are atheists according to the definition but don't want to be called atheists because of the group-membership connotation".

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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28-01-2017, 06:21 AM
RE: My God belief rekindled(?)
What exactly was this post about? I was hoping you were going to present some powerful argument against Atheism.
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28-01-2017, 06:24 AM
RE: My God belief rekindled(?)
Do I find this post provocative? No.
What does it make you think of? Popsthebuilder.
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28-01-2017, 06:37 AM
RE: My God belief rekindled(?)
(28-01-2017 05:55 AM)morondog Wrote:  Incidentally if that's the case then I'd like to congratulate you on your new membership of the group "People who are atheists according to the definition but don't want to be called atheists because of the group-membership connotation".

I did that for several decades. Had not thought about it that way. I avoided the very religious (because annoying dribble) and led an atheist life with (also non-identified) atheists as friends/partners, but I didn't identify as such until I got angry at all the nonsense that went down when hubby died.

When I first clicked on the Thinking Atheist I had a sense of trepidation, I was doing something wrong and forbidden.

So, I was atheist the majority of my life without adopting the label. The stigma of the word is very much alive.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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28-01-2017, 06:37 AM
RE: My God belief rekindled(?)
I am not the best at establishing what my points are, obviously.

Sorry about that.

I merely wanted to comment on how atheists can be biased against religion. I think it's a by-product of the fact that we seek and easier identify with people such as ourselves, and less so with theists, for example. I think that comes naturally. But is what comes naturally necessarily right in all cases?

I'm not necessarily saying it's bad to be social insofar as you are an antitheist, in practice, if not in name, but I think that we tend to sometimes exclude alien viewpoints, not understand as much where people come from who are outside of our bubble, and this is not just a characteristic of us, it is found everywhere. But it takes awareness of the fact to correct for it.
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28-01-2017, 06:40 AM
RE: My God belief rekindled(?)
(28-01-2017 06:37 AM)excitedpenguin Wrote:  I am not the best at establishing what my points are, obviously.

Sorry about that.

I merely wanted to comment on how atheists can be biased against religion. I think it's a by-product of the fact that we seek and easier identify with people such as ourselves, and less so with theists, for example. I think that comes naturally. But is what comes naturally necessarily right in all cases?

I'm not necessarily saying it's bad to be social insofar as you are an antitheist, in practice, if not in name, but I think that we tend to sometimes exclude alien viewpoints, not understand as much where people come from who are outside of our bubble, and this is not just a characteristic of us, it is found everywhere. But it takes awareness of the fact to correct for it.

You can be biased against something ( that would be having made a judgement without the foundation of facts) or you can reject something, based on facts.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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