My God belief rekindled(?)
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28-01-2017, 06:45 AM
RE: My God belief rekindled(?)
(28-01-2017 06:37 AM)excitedpenguin Wrote:  I am not the best at establishing what my points are, obviously.

Sorry about that.

I merely wanted to comment on how atheists can be biased against religion. I think it's a by-product of the fact that we seek and easier identify with people such as ourselves, and less so with theists, for example. I think that comes naturally. But is what comes naturally necessarily right in all cases?

I'm not necessarily saying it's bad to be social insofar as you are an antitheist, in practice, if not in name, but I think that we tend to sometimes exclude alien viewpoints, not understand as much where people come from who are outside of our bubble, and this is not just a characteristic of us, it is found everywhere. But it takes awareness of the fact to correct for it.
Atheists aren't necessarily Anti Theists.
We are just honest about our lack belief in God.
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28-01-2017, 06:46 AM
RE: My God belief rekindled(?)
(28-01-2017 06:40 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(28-01-2017 06:37 AM)excitedpenguin Wrote:  I am not the best at establishing what my points are, obviously.

Sorry about that.

I merely wanted to comment on how atheists can be biased against religion. I think it's a by-product of the fact that we seek and easier identify with people such as ourselves, and less so with theists, for example. I think that comes naturally. But is what comes naturally necessarily right in all cases?

I'm not necessarily saying it's bad to be social insofar as you are an antitheist, in practice, if not in name, but I think that we tend to sometimes exclude alien viewpoints, not understand as much where people come from who are outside of our bubble, and this is not just a characteristic of us, it is found everywhere. But it takes awareness of the fact to correct for it.

You can be biased against something ( that would be having made a judgement without the foundation of facts) or you can reject something, based on facts.

No, I think your thinking is a little constrained here.

If a theist comes and talks about God, what is your first reaction? To understand him and establish a meaningful connection where you both see where the other comes from, and incidentally this would mean he would truly see the world through your eyes for a second as well, or to antagonize and engage in a petty fight because it's fashionable and entertaining for both you and your peers to watch?

If you are going to accuse me of going off topic and pulling these statements out of my ass... Dude, that is what you just did as well. I just went a little further.

But I'm not interested in merely asking 'reject what, based on what facts, I never even talked about anything in specific like that?', so instead I assummed we are on the same page and pushed this conversation forward. I hope you oblige me.

I have a peculiar way of talking, as you may have noticed. I make a lot of assumptions. It's for economic purposes and is not to be confused with the assumptions one makes to themselves, silently, outside and beyond the boundaries of any one particular conversation. But if any are wrong, please point them out so we can correct course.

P.S. Sorry for calling you 'dude'.
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28-01-2017, 06:47 AM
RE: My God belief rekindled(?)
(28-01-2017 06:45 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(28-01-2017 06:37 AM)excitedpenguin Wrote:  I am not the best at establishing what my points are, obviously.

Sorry about that.

I merely wanted to comment on how atheists can be biased against religion. I think it's a by-product of the fact that we seek and easier identify with people such as ourselves, and less so with theists, for example. I think that comes naturally. But is what comes naturally necessarily right in all cases?

I'm not necessarily saying it's bad to be social insofar as you are an antitheist, in practice, if not in name, but I think that we tend to sometimes exclude alien viewpoints, not understand as much where people come from who are outside of our bubble, and this is not just a characteristic of us, it is found everywhere. But it takes awareness of the fact to correct for it.
Atheists aren't necessarily Anti Theists.
We are just honest about our lack belief in God.

Respectfully, potato POTATO.
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28-01-2017, 06:55 AM
RE: My God belief rekindled(?)
(28-01-2017 06:46 AM)excitedpenguin Wrote:  
(28-01-2017 06:40 AM)Dom Wrote:  You can be biased against something ( that would be having made a judgement without the foundation of facts) or you can reject something, based on facts.

No, I think your thinking is a little constrained here.

If a theist comes and talks about God, what is your first reaction? To understand him and establish a meaningful connection where you both see where the other comes from, and incidentally this would mean he would truly see the world through your eyes for a second as well, or to antagonize and engage in a petty fight because it's fashionable and entertaining for both you and your peers to watch?

If you are going to accuse me of going off topic and pulling these statements out of my ass... Dude, that is what you just did as well. I just went a little further.

But I'm not interested in merely asking 'reject what, based on what facts, I never even talked about anything in specific like that?', so instead I assummed we are on the same page and pushed this conversation forward. I hope you oblige me.

I have a peculiar way of talking, as you may have noticed. I make a lot of assumptions. It's for economic purposes and is not to be confused with the assumptions one makes to themselves, silently, outside and beyond the boundaries of any one particular conversation. But if any are wrong, please point them out so we can correct course.

P.S. Sorry for calling you 'dude'.

I am an old woman. I have spent many decades listening and making decisions about the validity and usefulness of religion. From what you write, I assume you are a young person and still sorting things for yourself..

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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28-01-2017, 06:58 AM (This post was last modified: 28-01-2017 07:12 AM by Agnostic Shane.)
RE: My God belief rekindled(?)
(28-01-2017 06:47 AM)excitedpenguin Wrote:  
(28-01-2017 06:45 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Atheists aren't necessarily Anti Theists.
We are just honest about our lack belief in God.

Respectfully, potato POTATO.
It's not. They are 2 separate things. This isn't an opinion. It's quite clearly defined.
Let me quote wiki a bit:

Antitheism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Secularist organizations
Antitheism (sometimes anti-theism) is the opposition to theism. The term has had a range of applications. In secular contexts, it typically refers to direct opposition to organized religion or to the belief in any deity.

Atheism
Atheism is, in the broadest sense, the absence of belief in the existence of deities.

I for one am an Agnostic Atheist but I am not opposed to Theism nor am I a supporter.
How can you label me (an Atheist) as an Anti-Theist? The differences in meanings are quite clear.
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28-01-2017, 07:08 AM
RE: My God belief rekindled(?)
(28-01-2017 04:12 AM)excitedpenguin Wrote:  First and foremost, what I found really odd about this guy is he made me actually think about religion in a new way. Or, rather, should I say he was the first person I came across who intelligibly confirmed my own secret belief in a unity of meaning and knowledge that covers such apparently 'irrational' beliefs as religions and various superstitions as well? Maybe so.

You'd have to elaborate on what you mean by that.

(28-01-2017 06:46 AM)excitedpenguin Wrote:  If a theist comes and talks about God, what is your first reaction? To understand him and establish a meaningful connection where you both see where the other comes from, and incidentally this would mean he would truly see the world through your eyes for a second as well, or to antagonize and engage in a petty fight because it's fashionable and entertaining for both you and your peers to watch?

If a theist comes in preaching god and telling us we are wrong not to believe they are going to be told bluntly that their crap carries no weight. I've been hearing it for decades and it's the same bullshit every time. They have no good evidence that their claims are true.

If somebody, theist or not, wants to talk about why people believe, or discuss the utility of beliefs, or the evolution of theologies, or point out similarities and differences of different beliefs then they would probably get a better response. Psychology and history are legitimate areas to explore; what god thinks is not a legitimate area until you first show that god exists.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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28-01-2017, 07:13 AM
RE: My God belief rekindled(?)
(28-01-2017 07:08 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(28-01-2017 04:12 AM)excitedpenguin Wrote:  First and foremost, what I found really odd about this guy is he made me actually think about religion in a new way. Or, rather, should I say he was the first person I came across who intelligibly confirmed my own secret belief in a unity of meaning and knowledge that covers such apparently 'irrational' beliefs as religions and various superstitions as well? Maybe so.

You'd have to elaborate on what you mean by that.

(28-01-2017 06:46 AM)excitedpenguin Wrote:  If a theist comes and talks about God, what is your first reaction? To understand him and establish a meaningful connection where you both see where the other comes from, and incidentally this would mean he would truly see the world through your eyes for a second as well, or to antagonize and engage in a petty fight because it's fashionable and entertaining for both you and your peers to watch?

If a theist comes in preaching god and telling us we are wrong not to believe they are going to be told bluntly that their crap carries no weight. I've been hearing it for decades and it's the same bullshit every time. They have no good evidence that their claims are true.

If somebody, theist or not, wants to talk about why people believe, or discuss the utility of beliefs, or the evolution of theologies, or point out similarities and differences of different beliefs then they would probably get a better response. Psychology and history are legitimate areas to explore; what god thinks is not a legitimate area until you first show that god exists.

Myself, I value actually trying to achieve something than merely feeling right in what I do because I don't much think it through. You feel right saying what you say, and acting like that in that situation, but what does it accomplish, really? That is the real question.
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28-01-2017, 07:14 AM
RE: My God belief rekindled(?)
(28-01-2017 06:58 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  I for one am an Agnostic Atheist but I am not opposed to Theism nor am I a supporter.
How can you label me (an Atheist) as an Anti-Theist? The differences in meanings are quite clear.

I might welcome someone who could define what a "gawd" is, coherently, and then demonstrate what is compelling about the idea. Until that happens, it is dismissed, as the worthless undefined nonsense it is.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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28-01-2017, 07:22 AM (This post was last modified: 28-01-2017 07:47 AM by Agnostic Shane.)
RE: My God belief rekindled(?)
(28-01-2017 07:13 AM)excitedpenguin Wrote:  
(28-01-2017 07:08 AM)unfogged Wrote:  You'd have to elaborate on what you mean by that.


If a theist comes in preaching god and telling us we are wrong not to believe they are going to be told bluntly that their crap carries no weight. I've been hearing it for decades and it's the same bullshit every time. They have no good evidence that their claims are true.

If somebody, theist or not, wants to talk about why people believe, or discuss the utility of beliefs, or the evolution of theologies, or point out similarities and differences of different beliefs then they would probably get a better response. Psychology and history are legitimate areas to explore; what god thinks is not a legitimate area until you first show that god exists.

Myself, I value actually trying to achieve something than merely feeling right in what I do because I don't much think it through. You feel right saying what you say, and acting like that in that situation, but what does it accomplish, really? That is the real question.
What are you getting at? I don't understand sorry.
Are you saying that being an Atheist is pointless because it accomplishes nothing?

I'll give you two choices:
1. Not believing in Leprechauns
Or
2. Searching for the Leprechaun's gold.

Which one seems more pointless?
My answer: By not choosing to do choice 2, choice 1 becomes a very useful choice with regards to time management. If (in the future) I find out that choice 1 was wrong & Leprechauns do exist then & only then can we say it was the better choice.
Unfortunately we do not live in the future, all we have is knowledge of the present & past. This knowledge tells me that Leprechauns have not been proven to exist, therefore it is counter productive for me to search for Gold belonging to this mythical being.

In light of current information regarding all known descriptions of God I have yet to come across any evidence that directly points to the presence of such an entity.
I am willing to read the fairy tails & discuss the what if's but we do 't go around carrying steaks or silver bullets because some guy claims werewolves & vampires exist.
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28-01-2017, 07:24 AM
RE: My God belief rekindled(?)
Listened up to 02:50.

Dafaq? Blink

The fellow thinks 'fair discrimination' is perfectly okay.

Facepalm

The fellow has a Christopher Monckton way with words.

And yes, I am saddened to say, I use the term in a derogatory fashion.
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