My Increasingly Fundamentalist Sister
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07-08-2013, 09:40 PM
RE: My Increasingly Fundamentalist Sister
Any recommendations for what to show to her?
I was thinking God on Trial to start with, given the spectrum of belief seen in the film.
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07-08-2013, 10:14 PM
RE: My Increasingly Fundamentalist Sister
(07-08-2013 09:40 PM)Topyka Wrote:  Any recommendations for what to show to her?
I was thinking God on Trial to start with, given the spectrum of belief seen in the film.
I'd do Bill Maher's Religiolous
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07-08-2013, 10:34 PM
RE: My Increasingly Fundamentalist Sister
She's fairly young still, and will just now be getting into some of the heavier subject in school in more detail. I don't know that I would go after her belief right away, there are other ways of putting some reason in her head.

Exactly how fundamentalist is this school, say on the topic of evolution? There are a ton of good resources to undermine fundamentalist ideals on different topics.

As for evolution, Kenneth Miller has some great lectures that show how indisputable the theory is and he is a practicing catholic with a solid faith. I could link to one in particular that I think is awesome if you'd like.

Challenge the biggest lies first, they will be the easiest for her to see the holes in. You can introduce other concepts about her belief system as she opens her eyes.

If she's already too far gone and refuses to listen or consider what you have to say, then fuck it, bring out the big guns. At least she'll have to think about what she's saying in order to try and refute your arguments.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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07-08-2013, 11:12 PM
RE: My Increasingly Fundamentalist Sister
Do your parents support real science? If so,show them the ridiculous textbooks of her

I don't really like going outside.
It's too damn "peopley" out there....
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07-08-2013, 11:39 PM (This post was last modified: 08-08-2013 12:27 AM by Topyka.)
RE: My Increasingly Fundamentalist Sister
(07-08-2013 10:34 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  She's fairly young still, and will just now be getting into some of the heavier subject in school in more detail. I don't know that I would go after her belief right away, there are other ways of putting some reason in her head.

Exactly how fundamentalist is this school, say on the topic of evolution? There are a ton of good resources to undermine fundamentalist ideals on different topics.

As for evolution, Kenneth Miller has some great lectures that show how indisputable the theory is and he is a practicing catholic with a solid faith. I could link to one in particular that I think is awesome if you'd like.

Challenge the biggest lies first, they will be the easiest for her to see the holes in. You can introduce other concepts about her belief system as she opens her eyes.

If she's already too far gone and refuses to listen or consider what you have to say, then fuck it, bring out the big guns. At least she'll have to think about what she's saying in order to try and refute your arguments.
Everything, from moderate to extreme, mostly extreme.
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07-08-2013, 11:55 PM
RE: My Increasingly Fundamentalist Sister
(07-08-2013 11:39 PM)Topyka Wrote:  Everything, from moderate to extreme.

I suppose you'd have to gain a working knowledge of what exactly is being taught on each respective subject. If she brings up a subject, inquire about what she's learning. Then present her with what the best academics today have to say about it, but in a way that doesn't directly interfere with a belief in god.

This could be a good learning experience for the whole family, if it happens to come up in front of your parents too. I would venture that if they're not hardcore about being religious, they'd be more likely to have an open mind about what kind of education your sister is receiving and perhaps be inclined to make sure she is getting a proper education rather than just being indoctrinated. I would hope so, anyhow.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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08-08-2013, 06:27 AM
RE: My Increasingly Fundamentalist Sister
(07-08-2013 09:31 PM)Topyka Wrote:  
(04-08-2013 08:20 AM)Chas Wrote:  Do your parents see her views as problematic?

No, but I doubt they know the full extent of the situation. To my knowledge they are moderate Christians.

I suggest talking with them.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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08-08-2013, 07:46 AM
RE: My Increasingly Fundamentalist Sister
(03-08-2013 07:41 PM)Topyka Wrote:  So, my sister has been going to a Christian private school for the last two years. In the last few months, I've heard her increasingly become more extreme in her belief and is taking on the kind of world view that is defined by what it rejects instead of any core doctrine.
After having read the textbooks they have and her assignments, I see that they are completely biased and nonfactual, it aggressively opposes anything that goes against any doctrine the school holds by using fallacies and out-right falsehoods to get various points across. Beyond science, they even lie about historical events, historical figures, their own philosophy, and other philosophies/religions.
I am very worried about what these teaching will do to my sister's future life and more-so her personality.

Should I intervene before these teaching become impossible to reverse or wait and let her find her own path?

Intervene like this:

Talk to her in generic ways get her to explain what they are teaching her in her own words. Ask questions that are subtle at first but directly challenge the logic and fallacy of what they are showing her. Start slow. Don't bombard her.

Step two. Get her to admit one time that something they taught her she has through her own explanations proven to be a lie. Again start slow. Don't force yourself on her. Make it seem like what is happening is that she is slowly coming to a realization just like they are trying to get her to do. They are using propaganda to indoctrinate her. You sort of have to do the same but use logic and reason they way they use manipulation and lies.

Step Three. Once she realizes there is something wrong make sure she understand what will happen if she challenges those in authority at this school. Make sure she understands what it means to think differently than they do if she has no choice but to attend this school. Then ask you crazy parents what the hell they are thinking sending her someplace they are teaching her with propaganda and lies. Challenge them as to why they are letting falsehood be her teacher?

Step four. Unless the other three work I wont even say what step four is. it is not nice nor is it safe. You may go to jail even if you save your sister from a life of torment. Personally I love my brother enough that I would go the distance no matter how far and crazy it was, but then I am made of pure determination and grit.

Show her what it is like to live as those adults live. Really show her. Then show her the other side of life and how those people live so well without the need for these lie. All you can do is try in the end it is her choice to accept reason or ignorance.


show her young don't wait sow the seeds just like they are trying to do with her and for love sake buy her some books that she will understand that help her see what reason and rhetoric are and why those forms of argument and debate are the only ones that actually are valid. Show her the way they try to convince her is wrong at the core level. If she is young she may not listen now but you may have given her something that will grow as she ages that she can save herself with later once she has built strength of character to be her own person. DO IT DO IT NOW.
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08-08-2013, 06:45 PM
RE: My Increasingly Fundamentalist Sister
Schools starts for her in only a few days, should I wait until they start teaching her serious things?
As of now I can't think of a way to initiate conversation.
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08-08-2013, 09:42 PM
RE: My Increasingly Fundamentalist Sister
(08-08-2013 06:45 PM)Topyka Wrote:  Schools starts for her in only a few days, should I wait until they start teaching her serious things?
As of now I can't think of a way to initiate conversation.

You may have to unless opportunity presents itself. Do you live in the same household? Any way to be watching a video for her to inadvertently overhear to perhaps spark a conversation?

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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