My Introduction - Neophyte
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15-09-2017, 10:14 AM
RE: My Introduction - Neophyte
(15-09-2017 04:06 AM)neophyte Wrote:  Hello Guys

As my username suggests, "Neophyte" - Novice/ Amateur/Freshman/ Apprentice

I have been struggling/thinking on many thoughts and till now they have become so much concern to me that now I have to check if any one else is also thinking about it. And then I found this forum.

God! itself is more than an interesting concept. The more we think the more it binds us to the thinking process. Bowing

Religion and God nowadays have almost become a synonym. Politically i do feel that choosing a side is necessary, but i really feel that this concept really messes with our hard wiring of the brain and all the thinking muscles.

I have been suffering from irregular phases of theism, atheism, and spirituality.

I don't know if I can claim to be an atheist in the bookish sense. Because for me the atheist is the one who strictly does not believe in the concept of God and even the Creator but wishes to find the truth of creation by himself. He also does not show any inclination for the enquiry behind the religious and spiritual logic. He believes in the power of logic, thought and interpolation of ideas. He believes in evidence and principles of cause and effect. He believes is witnessing and experiencing himself.

As far as i am concerned, i am not the religious type. But that doesn't make me an Athiest too. I do try to find any logical justification behind religious ritual (in case there is and it can be put to use).

For me there is always a journey and many times an oscillation in search of truth. I run from the crime scene to the forensics again and again and still running. Hope with you all, we can solve these riddles.

Welcome Neophyte!

You sound very much where I was at once upon a time. I didn't want to be called an "atheist," for various personal reasons. This was before I learned about secular humanism, but I digress.

I'm completely uncertain if a place like this would have helped me on my journey, so I'll be watching with interest if it helps with yours.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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15-09-2017, 12:15 PM
RE: My Introduction - Neophyte
G'day mate, and welcome to TTA. Smile

The notion for the existence of a supernatural entity, or a god, has no more empirical supporting evidence that that for leprechauns; that is, zero. In fact, there are handwritten, eye-witness reports (obviously fallacious!) in several 17th century church record books in Ireland that provide far more modern "evidence" for leprechauns' existence than the older Abrahamic biblical mythologies do for their God.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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15-09-2017, 12:38 PM (This post was last modified: 15-09-2017 08:25 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: My Introduction - Neophyte
(15-09-2017 12:15 PM)SYZ Wrote:  G'day mate, and welcome to TTA. Smile

The notion for the existence of a supernatural entity, or a god, has no more empirical supporting evidence that that for leprechauns; that is, zero. In fact, there are handwritten, eye-witness reports (obviously fallacious!) in several 17th century church record books in Ireland that provide far more modern "evidence" for leprechauns' existence than the older Abrahamic biblical mythologies do for their God.


It's fun to ask theists who claim they have "evidence" of something, BEFORE you recite these facts, if they will promise to assert/assent to something, IF you can unequivocally demonstrate you have evidence of something .... FAR better evidence than they have.

"I present to you a series of events that occurred in what is now, one of the United States of America.

The Governor of the state in question became involved.
A court was established.
Witnesses were carefully examined and cross-examined, by the best experts of the day.
Evidence was gathered.
Many people confessed in public to the officials of the court.
The entire proceeding was documented with thousands of sworn affidavits, court documents, interviews and related proceedings.
Sufficient evidence was established by intelligent men and women of good faith, that the declarations of the witnesses were true, and that these declarations should in all reasonableness result in the established legal consequences that reasonable good adult men and women thought were perfectly legitimate.

What evidence did they have that the assertions concerning what they said they saw and were convinced of were really true ?

1. Hundreds if not thousands of people were involved in concluding that what they said they saw and concluded was actually true.
2. The witnesses provided sworn testimony in court, sworn affidavits which we can look at today, and affirmed they were completely utterly convinced that what they were saying was totally completely true.
3. The witnesses came from all social strata, and every diverse background, including the most highly educated of the day.
4. These witnesses included judges, magistrates, the governor of the state, and family members of those about whom the assertions were made.
5. Many involved had much to lose if the assertions were to be found true. The consequences would impact many in very personal ways, if found to be true, thus had no conflict of interest, or reason to lie. Many could lose beloved spouses and family members and friends about whom they cared a great deal.
6. The proceedings were thorough, exhaustive investigations. They deliberately gathered evidence. They made every effort to sort out truth from fallacy. They went to every possible length to actually discern the facts.
7. There are numerous artifacts from the time, and many documents from the proceedings we can review in person today.
8. These proceedings happened, not 2000 years ago, but a mere few hundred years ago. The literacy rate was far far higher than in ancient Israel.
9. For claimed events from 2000 years ago, there are no actual original documents of any kind. None at all. Only copies from centuries later.
10. For the events in question we have sworn documented court testimony, not just word of mouth transmission.
11. A truck full of documents from the proceedings exists at the University of Virginia Library. You can go see the testimony of the eye-witnesses for yourself, today.
12. By any measure or method, the quantity and quality of the evidence for the events in question FAR FAR FAR outweigh the quality of the evidence for the events in Jerusalem 2000 years ago.
13. Anyone who claims they have good evidence to support belief in Jesus, his death, and resurrection, or any miracle thought to have happened, ... today, IF they are in any way a consistent, honest, logical and reasonably thoughtful person, they MUST also accept :

That of the 250 people accused, 19 women in Salem Massachusetts, including Sarah Goode, and Rebekah Nurse, The Witches of Salem, really were actually witches, and were justly condemned and executed for performing demon magic.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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15-09-2017, 12:41 PM
RE: My Introduction - Neophyte
Hello there Smile
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15-09-2017, 06:27 PM
RE: My Introduction - Neophyte
Howdy Neo.
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15-09-2017, 06:30 PM
RE: My Introduction - Neophyte
(15-09-2017 04:06 AM)neophyte Wrote:  Hello Guys

As my username suggests, "Neophyte" - Novice/ Amateur/Freshman/ Apprentice

I have been struggling/thinking on many thoughts and till now they have become so much concern to me that now I have to check if any one else is also thinking about it. And then I found this forum.

God! itself is more than an interesting concept. The more we think the more it binds us to the thinking process. Bowing

Religion and God nowadays have almost become a synonym. Politically i do feel that choosing a side is necessary, but i really feel that this concept really messes with our hard wiring of the brain and all the thinking muscles.

I have been suffering from irregular phases of theism, atheism, and spirituality.

I don't know if I can claim to be an atheist in the bookish sense. Because for me the atheist is the one who strictly does not believe in the concept of God and even the Creator but wishes to find the truth of creation by himself. He also does not show any inclination for the enquiry behind the religious and spiritual logic. He believes in the power of logic, thought and interpolation of ideas. He believes in evidence and principles of cause and effect. He believes is witnessing and experiencing himself.

As far as i am concerned, i am not the religious type. But that doesn't make me an Athiest too. I do try to find any logical justification behind religious ritual (in case there is and it can be put to use).

For me there is always a journey and many times an oscillation in search of truth. I run from the crime scene to the forensics again and again and still running. Hope with you all, we can solve these riddles.

> You have nothing to fear and everything to gain from an honest search for the truth. Welcome to the forums. Smile
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15-09-2017, 09:35 PM
RE: My Introduction - Neophyte
Hello.

God being interesting concept? Perhaps by showing how immoral humans could be to create such monstrosity.

Also atheism is simply lack of belief, nothing more. No such thing as "believing in power of logic" (whatever that means) is necessary.

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The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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17-09-2017, 10:07 AM
RE: My Introduction - Neophyte
Welcome to the forum.

This is not my sock puppet! Honestly! Angel

---
Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
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19-09-2017, 02:38 PM (This post was last modified: 19-09-2017 02:44 PM by Dr H.)
RE: My Introduction - Neophyte
(15-09-2017 04:06 AM)neophyte Wrote:  I don't know if I can claim to be an atheist in the bookish sense. Because for me the atheist is the one who strictly does not believe in the concept of God and even the Creator but wishes to find the truth of creation by himself. He also does not show any inclination for the enquiry behind the religious and spiritual logic. He believes in the power of logic, thought and interpolation of ideas. He believes in evidence and principles of cause and effect. He believes is witnessing and experiencing himself.

I would say that you are conflating "atheist" with "skeptic".
Atheists are often also skeptics, and skeptics are often also atheists, but the two are not synonymous.

As far as enquiry, I have been an atheist for at least all of my adult life, and quite likely from birth. Yet I have spent a lot of time -- perhaps an inordinate amount of time -- studying the religious, the spiritual, etc. I study these if only to better understand why so many of my fellow humans cling to these odd concepts.
I bring this up just to illustrate that merely being an atheist doesn't close one off from any avenues of inquiry, no matter how bizarre.

Nor do I confine myself solely to direct personal experience as a way of learning about the world in which I find myself. Evidence and logical inquiry are immensely useful tools, certainly, but there are also other minds around me, many of them more intelligent than I, making their own inquiries. There is no reason that I can't also benefit from their experience.

Quote:As far as i am concerned, i am not the religious type. But that doesn't make me an Athiest too. I do try to find any logical justification behind religious ritual (in case there is and it can be put to use).

As well as an atheist, I consider myself an "areligionist", because I believe that religion has pretty much outlived any major benefit it may have conferred for the survival of the species, and is now mostly acting to out detriment. I think we'd be better off without it. But not every atheist necessarily feels this way -- we come in all shapes, colors, and philosophies.

Welcome to TTA, Neophyte. Smile


Quote:For me there is always a journey and many times an oscillation in search of truth. I run from the crime scene to the forensics again and again and still running. Hope with you all, we can solve these riddles.

:Spoiler Alert:
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(The butler did it.)

Big Grin

--
Dr H

"So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
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