My Peer Review on: Fulfilled End Time Prophecy
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22-01-2014, 08:56 PM
Question My Peer Review on: Fulfilled End Time Prophecy
Out of curiosity I thought about the end of the world. Is this the end times? Will Jesus Christ return for revelation against the anti-christ and to judge us? Are the prophecies in the bible for this event fulfilled? Well not really, in fact I must say no, however Gotquestions.org disagrees with me. They in a way think that the prophecies that spell the end times, are happening now. I'm going to step away from my stronghold, science particularly evolution of metazoa(animals), to debunk this claim so any help i can get I'd much appreciate it. Now lets get started.

"Revelation 4:1 introduces a section of Scripture that details “things which must be hereafter.” What follows are prophecies of the “end times.” We have not yet reached the tribulation, the revelation of the Antichrist, or other “end-time” events. What we do see is a “preparation” for those events."

This is what makes end time prophecies important issue to tackle. Not all Christians push this as a issue as true,but the ones that do must have this addressed. There really is nothing to debunk about this point but I put it up so we can get an idea of what a christian says.


"Jesus said that the last days would be preceded by several things: many false Christs would come, deceiving many; we would “hear of wars and rumors of wars”; and there would be an increase in “famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in diverse places. All these are the beginning of sorrows” (Matthew 24:5-8). Today’s news is full of false religions, warfare, and natural disasters. We know that events of the tribulation period will include all that Jesus predicted (Revelation 6:1-8); current events seem to be a build-up for greater trouble ahead."

The claims made are prophecies any religious person can make so they're not that special. Lets see why. The there will be many false Christ is not special. At that time many Christians were divided by who they thought Jesus was, so it wouldn't be a surprise that when they wrote this they were talking about people that were not in their denomination of Christianity. In fact even to this day they're many denominations.(1) A catholic can call the protestants false Christ and the other way around. So every christian of every church can say that about each other, making the prophecy not that great. Wars and rumors of wars aren't that special. This prophecy is also vague and not that special. Wars and rumors of wars have been happening before the Torah was written.(2) Its also sad that anyone that thinks the bible saying there will be famine,pestilences,and earthquakes are actually good prophecies. First famine recorded famine happened in 1890 BC before the bible was written.(3) Also pestilences aren't special either. There have been many pestilences in the past,(4) which again all happened before the bible was written. I don't even have to get into the part about earthquakes it would be the same as my last two points I made because we all know earthquakes have been happening before the bible was written. Also there not at their worst in today either. Pestilences(5),earthquakes(6),and famines(7) have been happening through out history that would make our epidemics look sad. Worst things i can make these prophecies my self, I also know there will be earthquakes,famines,wars and so on because they happen to humans.


"Paul warned that the last days would bring a marked increase in false teaching. “In later times, some will abandon the faith, and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons” (1 Timothy 4:1). The last days are described as “perilous times” because of the increasingly evil character of man and because of people who actively “oppose the truth” (2 Timothy 3:1-9; also see 2 Thessalonians 2:3). The list of things people will be in the last days—lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power—(2 Timothy 3:1-2) seems to fit our modern age exactly."

First people have been moving away and toward Christianity even when the movement just started. This is really just a relief tactic from the extremist christian so that when they see most people leaving their dogma they can feel comfortable saying well this is supposed to happen anyway. Sorry to break this to you guys but this happens in every religion,not just yours. People lose their faith in religion and gain faith in it all the time. This has been happening before the bible was even written. It makes me bring up a question for people like this if a Muslim said "people are leaving Islam it's a sign of the end times as stated in the quran." Would this be a prophecy that proves the validity of the quran? If yes, then it would make yours vague because it would work for Hindus,pagans, and many other different religions. If no, then you'll understand when I say that I explain it's a easy prophecy or prediction and that anyone can say it and claim it as prophecy. Also the other part about humans being greedy ya that will happen now as it did in the past.

"Can there be any doubt that the prophecies concerning apostasy are being fulfilled? Our 21st-century world has embraced moral relativism, a philosophy which is tainting even the church. For example, many denominations are having a hard time defining marriage as being between one man and one woman, and many religious leaders today are openly supporting homosexuality. The Bible has become subordinate to the modern church’s quest for a more appealing “truth.” These are indeed “perilous times” spiritually"


This claim makes me laugh. Your church (or churches to be fair to all those who think the bible is true) have fallen to secular morals (or moral relativism as you call it) in the past. Lets us take for example the puritans. They were once a christian group that moved to what is now Massachusetts. They them selves were Christians, and believed the bible as truth, following it word by word, and using it as a moral guide like many Christians do today. However they had different laws, ones that would make you run to the no true Scotsman fallacy. The puritans would but people to death for many things, like is someone in their area became a Muslim.(8) You also must remember many churches at that time were the same. But today in america, Christians like those at gotquestions would say that's wrong. Its almost like if the church gave into secular morals when those who were part of it said don't kill others for their beliefs. So the church has been giving in to secular values for years because humans are getting better at learning right from wrong without your bible.

"The formation of the European Union—and the fact that we have a reunified Germany—is very interesting in light of biblical prophecy. The “ten toes” of Daniel 2:42 and the ten-horned beasts of Daniel 7:20 and Revelation 13:1 are references to a “revived” Roman Empire which will hold power before Christ returns. Although the precise political structure has yet to be formed, the pieces can be seen as falling into place."

Prophecy that can be twisted to say anything you want it to is very obvious. I don't see how you can get Germany from Roman Empire. And how is Germany getting a better political structure bad again? If anything Germany was more of a power house when it was Nazi Germany.(9) Also the Germanic tribes that would become Germany, had conflicts with the Romans.(10) Also don't read my source and then say "They were able to break through Rome meaning they can have more power, this also would connect the two." For any christian to every try to connect them like that I would say why didn't your god say Germany instead of the Roman Empire.


"In 1948, Israel was recognized as a sovereign state, and this, too, has ramifications for the student of Scripture. God promised Abram that his posterity would have Canaan as “an everlasting possession” (Genesis 17:8), and Ezekiel prophesied a physical and spiritual resuscitation of Israel (Ezekiel 37). Having Israel as a nation in its own land is important in light of end-time prophecy, because of Israel’s prominence in eschatology (Daniel 10:14; 11:41; Revelation 11:8)."

This is a claim I've come across a lot. Unlike the other prophecies stated by gotquestions this is the only one where I can't say that it is something that happened in the past making it easier to predict. There is one thing that I can say about it and that's the fact that the prophecy is a self-fulfilling one. The Jews have been fight for Israel for years.(11) So this is something that any one country can do. The united states is any excellent example. For years the people living in america wanted to be independent from Britain. They kept fighting all those years and won their independence. One can say that the bible predicted the Jews getting Israel back way longer then america has had Europeans on it. This would be like saying your accomplishment is better then mine because started 10 years before i did, while you where born 10 years before me. A fight for your country over the years is a fight, no matter who started first.

"While there is no biblical proof that the things mentioned above are the fulfillment of specific end-times prophecies, we can see how many of these events are similar to what the Bible describes. In any case, we are to be watching for these signs because Jesus told us that the day of the Lord—His return for His own—would come like a thief in the night (2 Peter 3:10), unexpected and unannounced. “Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man" (Luke 21:36)."


Well gotquestions you may not think these are to serious but many Christians do. That is why I peer reviewed this paper. Also these signs have been happening for years. I would like to point out that the Jews getting Israel back was around the time between the end of WW2 and the cold war. People for years have been claiming that they are in the end times. My dad in fact told me that a little earthquake in new jersey was a sign. Despite the fact it wasn't the worst(12) so this issue should be addressed for these reasons.To add on to it your predictions aren't that special, if they aren't special then they can be predicted by man easily, if they can be predicted by man easily it hard to show that the bible is divinely inspired, and if it's not divinely inspired then it was not written by god, and if it wasn't written by god then we can get rid of the bible. This would also mean that we would never stand in front of your son of man, because he would at best existed differently then what your bibles say.

Scrutiny of any errors on what I typed is highly encouraged.

http://www.gotquestions.org/fulfilled-prophecy.html

1.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations

2.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_before_1000

3.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famines

4.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics

5.http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/black_death_of_1348_to_1350.htm

6.http://www.nbcnews.com/id/42029974/ns/world_news-asia_pacific/t/top-deadliest-earthquakes-history/#.UuA9ZBAo7IU

7.http://www.examiner.com/article/the-great-famine-1315-1317

8.http://thehistoricpresent.wordpress.com/2012/09/06/capital-crimes-in-puritan-massachusetts/

9.http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/Nazi%20Germany.htm

10.http://www.korcula.net/ppages/markomarelic_german.htm

11.http://www.science.co.il/Israel-history.php

12.http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/states/events/1783_11_30.php

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22-01-2014, 10:02 PM
RE: My Peer Review on: Fulfilled End Time Prophecy
(22-01-2014 08:56 PM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  Out of curiosity I thought about the end of the world. Is this the end times? Will Jesus Christ return for revelation against the anti-christ and to judge us? Are the prophecies in the bible for this event fulfilled? Well not really, in fact I must say no, however Gotquestions.org disagrees with me. They in a way think that the prophecies that spell the end times, are happening now. I'm going to step away from my stronghold, science particularly evolution of metazoa(animals), to debunk this claim so any help i can get I'd much appreciate it. Now lets get started.

"Revelation 4:1 introduces a section of Scripture that details “things which must be hereafter.” What follows are prophecies of the “end times.” We have not yet reached the tribulation, the revelation of the Antichrist, or other “end-time” events. What we do see is a “preparation” for those events."

This is what makes end time prophecies important issue to tackle. Not all Christians push this as a issue as true,but the ones that do must have this addressed. There really is nothing to debunk about this point but I put it up so we can get an idea of what a christian says.


"Jesus said that the last days would be preceded by several things: many false Christs would come, deceiving many; we would “hear of wars and rumors of wars”; and there would be an increase in “famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in diverse places. All these are the beginning of sorrows” (Matthew 24:5-8). Today’s news is full of false religions, warfare, and natural disasters. We know that events of the tribulation period will include all that Jesus predicted (Revelation 6:1-8); current events seem to be a build-up for greater trouble ahead."

The claims made are prophecies any religious person can make so they're not that special. Lets see why. The there will be many false Christ is not special. At that time many Christians were divided by who they thought Jesus was, so it wouldn't be a surprise that when they wrote this they were talking about people that were not in their denomination of Christianity. In fact even to this day they're many denominations.(1) A catholic can call the protestants false Christ and the other way around. So every christian of every church can say that about each other, making the prophecy not that great. Wars and rumors of wars aren't that special. This prophecy is also vague and not that special. Wars and rumors of wars have been happening before the Torah was written.(2) Its also sad that anyone that thinks the bible saying there will be famine,pestilences,and earthquakes are actually good prophecies. First famine recorded famine happened in 1890 BC before the bible was written.(3) Also pestilences aren't special either. There have been many pestilences in the past,(4) which again all happened before the bible was written. I don't even have to get into the part about earthquakes it would be the same as my last two points I made because we all know earthquakes have been happening before the bible was written. Also there not at their worst in today either. Pestilences(5),earthquakes(6),and famines(7) have been happening through out history that would make our epidemics look sad. Worst things i can make these prophecies my self, I also know there will be earthquakes,famines,wars and so on because they happen to humans.


"Paul warned that the last days would bring a marked increase in false teaching. “In later times, some will abandon the faith, and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons” (1 Timothy 4:1). The last days are described as “perilous times” because of the increasingly evil character of man and because of people who actively “oppose the truth” (2 Timothy 3:1-9; also see 2 Thessalonians 2:3). The list of things people will be in the last days—lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power—(2 Timothy 3:1-2) seems to fit our modern age exactly."

First people have been moving away and toward Christianity even when the movement just started. This is really just a relief tactic from the extremist christian so that when they see most people leaving their dogma they can feel comfortable saying well this is supposed to happen anyway. Sorry to break this to you guys but this happens in every religion,not just yours. People lose their faith in religion and gain faith in it all the time. This has been happening before the bible was even written. It makes me bring up a question for people like this if a Muslim said "people are leaving Islam it's a sign of the end times as stated in the quran." Would this be a prophecy that proves the validity of the quran? If yes, then it would make yours vague because it would work for Hindus,pagans, and many other different religions. If no, then you'll understand when I say that I explain it's a easy prophecy or prediction and that anyone can say it and claim it as prophecy. Also the other part about humans being greedy ya that will happen now as it did in the past.

"Can there be any doubt that the prophecies concerning apostasy are being fulfilled? Our 21st-century world has embraced moral relativism, a philosophy which is tainting even the church. For example, many denominations are having a hard time defining marriage as being between one man and one woman, and many religious leaders today are openly supporting homosexuality. The Bible has become subordinate to the modern church’s quest for a more appealing “truth.” These are indeed “perilous times” spiritually"


This claim makes me laugh. Your church (or churches to be fair to all those who think the bible is true) have fallen to secular morals (or moral relativism as you call it) in the past. Lets us take for example the puritans. They were once a christian group that moved to what is now Massachusetts. They them selves were Christians, and believed the bible as truth, following it word by word, and using it as a moral guide like many Christians do today. However they had different laws, ones that would make you run to the no true Scotsman fallacy. The puritans would but people to death for many things, like is someone in their area became a Muslim.(8) You also must remember many churches at that time were the same. But today in america, Christians like those at gotquestions would say that's wrong. Its almost like if the church gave into secular morals when those who were part of it said don't kill others for their beliefs. So the church has been giving in to secular values for years because humans are getting better at learning right from wrong without your bible.

"The formation of the European Union—and the fact that we have a reunified Germany—is very interesting in light of biblical prophecy. The “ten toes” of Daniel 2:42 and the ten-horned beasts of Daniel 7:20 and Revelation 13:1 are references to a “revived” Roman Empire which will hold power before Christ returns. Although the precise political structure has yet to be formed, the pieces can be seen as falling into place."

Prophecy that can be twisted to say anything you want it to is very obvious. I don't see how you can get Germany from Roman Empire. And how is Germany getting a better political structure bad again? If anything Germany was more of a power house when it was Nazi Germany.(9) Also the Germanic tribes that would become Germany, had conflicts with the Romans.(10) Also don't read my source and then say "They were able to break through Rome meaning they can have more power, this also would connect the two." For any christian to every try to connect them like that I would say why didn't your god say Germany instead of the Roman Empire.


"In 1948, Israel was recognized as a sovereign state, and this, too, has ramifications for the student of Scripture. God promised Abram that his posterity would have Canaan as “an everlasting possession” (Genesis 17:8), and Ezekiel prophesied a physical and spiritual resuscitation of Israel (Ezekiel 37). Having Israel as a nation in its own land is important in light of end-time prophecy, because of Israel’s prominence in eschatology (Daniel 10:14; 11:41; Revelation 11:8)."

This is a claim I've come across a lot. Unlike the other prophecies stated by gotquestions this is the only one where I can't say that it is something that happened in the past making it easier to predict. There is one thing that I can say about it and that's the fact that the prophecy is a self-fulfilling one. The Jews have been fight for Israel for years.(11) So this is something that any one country can do. The united states is any excellent example. For years the people living in america wanted to be independent from Britain. They kept fighting all those years and won their independence. One can say that the bible predicted the Jews getting Israel back way longer then america has had Europeans on it. This would be like saying your accomplishment is better then mine because started 10 years before i did, while you where born 10 years before me. A fight for your country over the years is a fight, no matter who started first.

"While there is no biblical proof that the things mentioned above are the fulfillment of specific end-times prophecies, we can see how many of these events are similar to what the Bible describes. In any case, we are to be watching for these signs because Jesus told us that the day of the Lord—His return for His own—would come like a thief in the night (2 Peter 3:10), unexpected and unannounced. “Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man" (Luke 21:36)."


Well gotquestions you may not think these are to serious but many Christians do. That is why I peer reviewed this paper. Also these signs have been happening for years. I would like to point out that the Jews getting Israel back was around the time between the end of WW2 and the cold war. People for years have been claiming that they are in the end times. My dad in fact told me that a little earthquake in new jersey was a sign. Despite the fact it wasn't the worst(12) so this issue should be addressed for these reasons.To add on to it your predictions aren't that special, if they aren't special then they can be predicted by man easily, if they can be predicted by man easily it hard to show that the bible is divinely inspired, and if it's not divinely inspired then it was not written by god, and if it wasn't written by god then we can get rid of the bible. This would also mean that we would never stand in front of your son of man, because he would at best existed differently then what your bibles say.

Scrutiny of any errors on what I typed is highly encouraged.

http://www.gotquestions.org/fulfilled-prophecy.html

1.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations

2.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_before_1000

3.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famines

4.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics

5.http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/black_death_of_1348_to_1350.htm

6.http://www.nbcnews.com/id/42029974/ns/world_news-asia_pacific/t/top-deadliest-earthquakes-history/#.UuA9ZBAo7IU

7.http://www.examiner.com/article/the-great-famine-1315-1317

8.http://thehistoricpresent.wordpress.com/2012/09/06/capital-crimes-in-puritan-massachusetts/

9.http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/Nazi%20Germany.htm

10.http://www.korcula.net/ppages/markomarelic_german.htm

11.http://www.science.co.il/Israel-history.php

12.http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/states/events/1783_11_30.php

The entire enterprise is misguided. Prophecy was not fortune telling.
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid257278 #86

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22-01-2014, 10:09 PM
RE: My Peer Review on: Fulfilled End Time Prophecy
The entire enterprise is misguided. Prophecy was not fortune telling.
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid257278 #86
[/quote]

This makes it even better. Not only are these people lying about the end times,but there using things that would offend there god. I love itHeart

[Image: Guilmon-41189.gif] ♪僕は恐怖の一定した状態に住んで、不幸、逃すもう?僕は、それはもう痛いときも気づかないと
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22-01-2014, 10:40 PM
RE: My Peer Review on: Fulfilled End Time Prophecy
(22-01-2014 10:09 PM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  The entire enterprise is misguided. Prophecy was not fortune telling.
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid257278 #86

This makes it even better. Not only are these people lying about the end times,but there using things that would offend there god. I love itHeart
[/quote]

Well that, and it just renders their entire argument null and void. But if you're going to take it to their level, you've got good points to counter there too.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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23-01-2014, 01:47 AM
RE: My Peer Review on: Fulfilled End Time Prophecy
(22-01-2014 10:09 PM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  This makes it even better. Not only are these people lying about the end times, but they're using things that would offend their god. I love itHeart

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23-01-2014, 02:26 AM
RE: My Peer Review on: Fulfilled End Time Prophecy
Your grammar is atrocious. Tongue

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