My Wife the Believer
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28-12-2014, 07:58 AM
RE: My Wife the Believer
(28-12-2014 07:44 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(28-12-2014 07:32 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  So the tl,dr version is that she's unintelligent. Tongue

No, I think she's quite wise, and it's us who are foolish.

We spend too much time chasing our own shadows, when the light is all around us, but we don't see nothing but shadows.

"And you're the one causing it. It's you. You're that shadow! That's the point."

How is it wisdom to not apply rational skepticism to ones philosophical foundations?

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28-12-2014, 08:05 AM
RE: My Wife the Believer
(28-12-2014 07:58 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  How is it wisdom to not apply rational skepticism to ones philosophical foundations?

What "rational skepticism" should be applied here?

And why do you pursue philosophical foundations?

If the pursuit of knowledge is a means to an end, such as a fuller and meaningful existence. Is the person who embodies that end, wiser than those left still pursuing the means?
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28-12-2014, 08:13 AM
RE: My Wife the Believer
(28-12-2014 07:26 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Atheists tend to believe that the evidence for God is so inadequate, while someone such as my wife believes God's existence is incredibly obvious to her. Yet, if one were to ask her for some scientific evidence, the sort with clearly defined terminology, quantifiable, can be tested and reproduced under highly controlled experimental conditions etc.., she would be empty handed.

We talked about this, the other morning. My wife unlike myself isn't as infatuated with religious questions; her theology is relatively absent. She hasn't devoted herself to articulating her beliefs and reasons, but she has a deep and heartfelt belief in God, a God whose existence is so obvious to her, so abundant for her, that you'd have an easier time getting the sun to stand still, than to take it from her.

The reason why she believes, is based on the transformative role her religious beliefs have had on her life, that the God she believes in existed so intimately to her, that she could pray as if she was speaking to a close friend, to one who saw her clearly and fully unlike any other.

Or in other words the heart of her belief is based on her subjective exploration of her life, not some removed objective calculation. She perceives the light of God in these effects, how they have humbled her, made her whole, and given her life a sacred and profound sense of value.

To this, an unbeliever will likely tell her that she shouldn't put much weight on her subjective evaluations and experiences, because the way we see it those experiences are incredibily unreliable, and you shouldn't have such trust in yourself, particularly in regards to such a huge question such as God. They likely would suggest she wait to hold judgement, until evidence comes about that scientist can transfer to a lab and evaluate, and confirm God's existence, the way they match a person to his DNA, or gauge the age of the Earth.

To this, she will not be moved.

How lovely for your wife.

I also regularly talk to myself as though I were speaking to another person.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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28-12-2014, 08:14 AM
RE: My Wife the Believer
consider the following video


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28-12-2014, 08:16 AM
RE: My Wife the Believer
(28-12-2014 08:05 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(28-12-2014 07:58 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  How is it wisdom to not apply rational skepticism to ones philosophical foundations?

What "rational skepticism" should be applied here?

And why do you pursue philosophical foundations?

If the pursuit of knowledge is a means to an end, such as a fuller and meaningful existence. Is the person who embodies that end, wiser than those left still pursuing the means?

define meaningful existence
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28-12-2014, 08:27 AM
RE: My Wife the Believer
(28-12-2014 08:13 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  I also regularly talk to myself as though I were speaking to another person. Of course, that may be more to do with that I suspect is latent creeping insanity than religious belief...

So do I, though I don't think for me, and particularly not for her, is it any form of insanity. I also think my wife is far better at it than I am. I love to hear her pray, but am embarrassed to hear myself pray.

It's a hard thing to find ourselves in the place where our inner lives hide throughout the day, and week, and years, but here when she prays she's able to find that place every time.

It's a hard thing to sit quietly, to contemplate our own life and skeletons, and to consider the lives of others deeply, to wish them hope and meaning, to "ladle out benediction upon the heads of strangers instead of curses”. In fact it may be even insane, and sanity may require we just live our lives completely distracted from one thing to the next.
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28-12-2014, 08:28 AM
RE: My Wife the Believer
(28-12-2014 08:16 AM)Ace Wrote:  define meaningful existence

I only meant it, as you yourself may see it.
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28-12-2014, 08:31 AM
RE: My Wife the Believer
(28-12-2014 08:05 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(28-12-2014 07:58 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  How is it wisdom to not apply rational skepticism to ones philosophical foundations?

What "rational skepticism" should be applied here?

Questioning that the causal agent of transformation is indeed supernatural for one.

(28-12-2014 08:05 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  And why do you pursue philosophical foundations?

If the pursuit of knowledge is a means to an end, such as a fuller and meaningful existence. Is the person who embodies that end, wiser than those left still pursuing the means?

According to some theology, the one who strives for righteousness more reflects god's grace than the one who is intrinsically graceful.

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28-12-2014, 08:47 AM (This post was last modified: 28-12-2014 08:51 AM by Tomasia.)
RE: My Wife the Believer
(28-12-2014 08:31 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Questioning that the causal agent of transformation is indeed supernatural for one.

This assumes that from her transformation, she explores the causes, and surmises a series of causes, until she finds God. When in reality all she knows is that transformative power. That there is light in a world that once existed for her only in shadows. She's not very interested in contemplating the form, but for her it's all just one thing. And she praises just that one thing.

She doesn't contemplate questions of supernatural and natural, drawing lines between them, to go through her life and say this is of one sort, and this is of the other. Such an assumption is not being made by her, to ever question.

(28-12-2014 08:05 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  According to some theology, the one who strives for righteousness more reflects god's grace than the one who is intrinsically graceful.

Yes, striving to be righteousness would be of the utmost importance, more important than being smart.

I read an interview with Cormac McCarthy, when speaking of his scientist friends at the Santa Fe Institute, who say "It's really more important to be good than it is to be smart." I couldn't agree more. The question is do you?
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28-12-2014, 08:59 AM
RE: My Wife the Believer
What was the point of the OP?

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored- Aldous Huxley
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