My Wife the Believer
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28-12-2014, 10:24 AM
RE: My Wife the Believer
First we should say that the two people in the opening post are both just doing what they were born to do. Their relationship with these topics was probably decided before they were born, so whatever the value of the respective positions, we shouldn't get too wound up in assigning credit or blame. But...

If it was possible for us to choose to be either the husband or the wife...

As a hypothetical exercise in the abstract...

An exercise that can strive for fun, but is unlikely to accomplish much else....

IF we could chose, which choice would be the most practical rational choice? The wife's experience? Or the husband's?
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28-12-2014, 10:26 AM
RE: My Wife the Believer
(28-12-2014 10:24 AM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  First we should say that the two people in the opening post are both just doing what they were born to do. Their relationship with these topics was probably decided before they were born, so whatever the value of the respective positions, we shouldn't get too wound up in assigning credit or blame. But...

If it was possible for us to choose to be either the husband or the wife...

As a hypothetical exercise in the abstract...

An exercise that can strive for fun, but is unlikely to accomplish much else....

IF we could chose, which choice would be the most practical rational choice? The wife's experience? Or the husband's?

So everything is predestined?

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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28-12-2014, 10:32 AM
RE: My Wife the Believer
(28-12-2014 10:20 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  lol, just to clarify I did write it, and I was in fact speaking of my own wife. I just wrote it in reply to someone else, in another forum, and copy and pasted my response here absent of the context of the previous forum in which my response arose.

Aha, Grandpa Geezer finally has some idea wtf is going on! :-)

Well then, all praise fully restored in duplicate, with a box of fresh donuts tossed in as a tip to apologize for my misunderstanding.

Really, great post dude. I could discuss that one for a month, and probably will. Great writing...
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28-12-2014, 10:41 AM
RE: My Wife the Believer
(28-12-2014 09:59 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(28-12-2014 09:11 AM)DLJ Wrote:  1. Paint the picture for us, if you will... how would her behaviour change if her comfort blanket was taken away from her? I invite you to speculate.

I don't know. It's hard for me to imagine how she would reinterpret her life in such a radically different way.

She would have to acquire new beliefs, like along the lines of those suggested here, a new found trust and confidence and sole reliance on the scientific establishment, acquire a general mistrust of her own subjective evaluations. She would have to impenetrable to my own charm and graces.

She would likely talk incessantly about the arguments found in the God Delusion, and I would likely end up living with the ghost of all atheists forums past and present, day in and day out, on repeat, and only absent when we sleep. As a result she would become a shell of the woman I once knew, and be someone entirely else, an alien that came over and occupied her body, but her soul absent.

I'd likely end up going to the nearest police office, and informing them that my wife's body has been occupied by alien forces. That this woman back at home is not her, and that I have no idea who she is, but it's not my wife, though she sounds and looks just like her.

As a result, I'll end up living my day in the mental hospital, defending my innocence, while that alien back home, would be cluttering my Netflix feed with the Cosmos, and Science videos, and eating all my pomegranates, which she hated, but aliens from what I hear love.

Quote:Why did you marry her? I'm assuming that her delusional state was prenuptial, of course.

Well, we were friends for awhile prior to getting married. And I recall one day she dragged me to a homeless shelter, where she would feed these folks who reeked of urine and sweat. We had to sit with them at the table, and break bread with them, and I was too awkward to pray before we ate, so she did. And when she prayed, she prayed with such care and such compassion for these filthy bums, that she wept, piercing my own indifference.

I knew then, that if this rare beauty she held within her, was not mine, that I'd be insanely jealous of the one who did. Here she was so attuned to life and beauty, that I could only seek but never find. Here she was possessing what a man would give his entire life for.

That's truly touching.

I have friends who do that too (the Shelter thing) ... but not a religious bone in their body.

I doubt that her caring demeanour would diminish if she set aside her delusions.

If she ever starts doing that pomegranate / sciencey thing, send her my way, she sounds perfect for me.

In anticipation,
DLJ

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28-12-2014, 10:45 AM
RE: My Wife the Believer
(28-12-2014 09:11 AM)DLJ Wrote:  1. Paint the picture for us, if you will... how would her behaviour change if her comfort blanket was taken away from her? I invite you to speculate.

I have no idea about the gentleman's wife, but I've been trying to take the comfort blanket of fantasy knowings away from my honorable fellow members, and they don't like it one fucking little bit. :-)

But, the attempt is most likely a stupid idea anyway, my bad there.

Quote:She would have to acquire new beliefs, like along the lines of those suggested here, a new found trust and confidence and sole reliance on the scientific establishment, acquire a general mistrust of her own subjective evaluations.

As best I can tell, few to none of our honorable fellow members are willing to surrender to the processes of reason (on the topics addressed by this site) so I'm not sure why we are talking about the gentleman's wife doing so. What makes us authorities on the topic??

Quote:As a result she would become a shell of the woman I once knew, and be someone entirely else, an alien that came over and occupied her body, but her soul absent.

Damn my man, you know how to talk the talk.

Quote:As a result, I'll end up living my day in the mental hospital, defending my innocence, while that alien back home, would be cluttering my Netflix feed with the Cosmos, and Science videos, and eating all my pomegranates, which she hated, but aliens from what I hear love.

Ha, ha, me too, Netflix feed clogged with the Cosmos and Science videos, so wife created her own Netflix account to escape the nerdy madness.


Quote:Well, we were friends for awhile prior to getting married.

The one true way to marriage success...

Quote:And I recall one day she dragged me to a homeless shelter, where she would feed these folks who reeked of urine and sweat. We had to sit with them at the table, and break bread with them, and I was too awkward to pray before we ate, so she did. And when she prayed, she prayed with such care and such compassion for these filthy bums, that she wept, piercing my own indifference.

Your wife is, pardon my french, fucking amazing.

Quote:I knew then, that if this rare beauty she held within her, was not mine, that I'd be insanely jealous of the one who did. Here she was so attuned to life and beauty, that I could only seek but never find.

A man with excellent taste in women. I have that too, though I'm generally clueless about what to do next once I find them.

Next question if it's not too intrusive. Has your wife read this thread, or earlier versions of it?
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28-12-2014, 10:55 AM
RE: My Wife the Believer
(28-12-2014 10:45 AM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  
(28-12-2014 09:11 AM)DLJ Wrote:  1. Paint the picture for us, if you will... how would her behaviour change if her comfort blanket was taken away from her? I invite you to speculate.

I have no idea about the gentleman's wife, but I've been trying to take the comfort blanket of fantasy knowings away from my honorable fellow members, and they don't like it one fucking little bit. :-)

But, the attempt is most likely a stupid idea anyway, my bad there.

Ah! I think I see where you've being going wrong.

How can one remove something that isn't there?

Consider

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28-12-2014, 11:11 AM
RE: My Wife the Believer
(28-12-2014 09:41 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  I think the adage "it's not the destination but the journey" applies here.

I've come to be totally content in the quest for truth and, as I write this thinking about it, I hope I'm never completely satisfied, that I never find all the answers.

I can relate to this sentiment.

I'm most comfortable in my own head, and enjoy exploring ideas and concepts, and reading about variety of things. I have a particular fascination with belief and unbelief. To a lesser extent I also enjoy following the lives of celebrities, keeping in touch with pop culture, films, and novels, and new technologies, and the world of healthcare and economics since those where my majors in college, and how to brew the perfect cup of coffee.

My wife on the other hand is more about the practical life. She did well in school. She knows how to apply what she learned in her occupation, and in all the practical aspects of her daily life. She's not consumed by ideas to the extent that I am, and much of her exploration of ideas comes from her union with me, and our routine sofa psychoanalysis sessions of everyone and everything.

We know each other fairly well, and challenge ourselves all the time. Our unions has produced a level of cynicism in her, that I sometimes regret, that popped a certain religious bubble of her youth, that she likely will never be able to resurrect.

The idea of knowledge as the journey to nowhere, might have an appeal to us, but for her it's more like a tedious car ride, lost and fiddling with maps, with men too arrogant to ask for directions. For her, the question would be what's the point of wondering about questions, of occupying our space with ideas, that have no bearing on our lives, on pursuits that bear no foreseeable fruits, but rather just idle.

And I think she may have a point, shedding some wisdom to a fool.

I find that I sometimes retreat to living in my head, as the result of my inability to live life in meaningful community and in love with others, in touch with that which is sacred and ultimately meaningful, in ways that she can embody but I can't.

For me to say my world of ideas is superior would be a lie. I settle for my lesser world, which I esteem to such a degree, solely because I find myself unable to occupy her more profound one, the one so attuned with life, rather than the one in my head, so removed from it.
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28-12-2014, 11:12 AM
RE: My Wife the Believer
(28-12-2014 10:55 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Ah! I think I see where you've being going wrong. How can one remove something that isn't there

Uh huh. If there is no comfy cozy blanket of fantasy knowings on atheist forums, then um, why does everybody get so mad when some idiot tries to yank the blanket that supposedly doesn't exist away?

People get mad when someone touches on some truth they don't want to hear.

As example, if I were to call everybody here an Orange Donut! nobody would get mad, because no truth would be perceived.

What actually happens when one challenges the atheist fantasy knowing comfort blanket is that folks get mad, because they glimpse the truth of it for a moment, and then they retreat in to the safety of the "above it all" pose.

Fuck. I hate that I see these things so clearly. It does make me a dickhead, gotta agree.

Oh well, I guess being true to one's dickheaded destiny is the only real available option. On with the stupid show!
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28-12-2014, 11:25 AM
RE: My Wife the Believer
(28-12-2014 11:11 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  For me to say my world of ideas is superior would be a lie. I settle for my lesser world, which I esteem to such a degree, solely because I find myself unable to occupy her more profound one, the one so attuned with life, rather than the one in my head, so removed from it.

Perhaps the superior thing is to know who we are, accept who we are, and then be who we are with as much enthusiasm as we can muster.

If one is a dickhead typoholic, be a dickhead typoholic, and try to have a sense of humor about one's pathetic predick-ament.

Quote:solely because I find myself unable to occupy her more profound one

It is possible, perhaps, for you to occupy a more profound world of your own discovery, that doesn't rely on religion as the means to that end.

Your wife has a means that works for her, religious belief, a bus she takes to the end of "the profound place".

Her means don't work for you. You can't get a ticket on her bus. So what?

You have your own means. Reason.

That bus leads to the same place as your wife's bus, if you ride it far enough.
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28-12-2014, 11:26 AM (This post was last modified: 28-12-2014 12:33 PM by Tomasia.)
RE: My Wife the Believer
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