My alternate view on evolution
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19-12-2010, 12:52 AM
RE: My alternate view on evolution
I know what evolution and natural selection are. I am merely arguing that natural selection is not the main force driving evolution, dna mutations are.

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19-12-2010, 01:10 AM
RE: My alternate view on evolution
(19-12-2010 12:52 AM)latvianxave8 Wrote:  I know what evolution and natural selection are. I am merely arguing that natural selection is not the main force driving evolution, dna mutations are.

No they are not. DNA mutations are not driving anything. Mutations simply occur at random. When they occur what you get is some organisms that are more fit for survival in their current environment and some that are less fit. The increased survival rates of the fitter specimens is what is called natural selection. In order for evolution to occur you need both mutations and a selective mechanism. Arguing which is more important doesn't make any sense, because evolution would not be happening without both.

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19-12-2010, 04:23 AM
RE: My alternate view on evolution
Like the Viking said, mutations are not a driving force. The way I understand it, "natural selection" is actually a term used to describe the driving forces in evolution. Whether it's selection based on mating preference (the biggest or brightest male gets the most girlfriends), speed (the faster predator gets more chow, the faster prey gets away more often, and therefore gets his groove on with the ladies more), or any other difference that allows a living thing to reproduce with greater success. These are all examples of the selective part of evolution. The selective part is the driving force.

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-SR
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19-12-2010, 08:23 AM
RE: My alternate view on evolution
As far as I know , Darwin hated the term Theory of Evolution for his book , I think he preferred something like "On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life. " the title is from wikipedia but i recalled a different one from a documentary on Viasat History Channel.
He hated the term Theory of Evolution because it failed to grasp the concept of his work.
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20-12-2010, 03:49 AM
RE: My alternate view on evolution
(19-12-2010 12:37 AM)ThinkingNorseman Wrote:  No J, that last post was nonsensical. How could you have evolution without a selection process? I'm trying to come up with an analogy to illustrate how bizarre this is, but I can't. It's that bizarre!

You can't have evolution without a selection process. The idea I was trying to convey was what mutations may have created without a selection process and we happened to be here, anywat, somehow. I know that that is nonsensical. The idea was to relate the importance of selection in evolution and the life as we know it came to be as a result of both mutations and natural selection. Take one of the wheels of your motorcycle and see how well it rides. Would that have been a better analogy?
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20-12-2010, 04:22 AM
RE: My alternate view on evolution
Guys, I am not arguing that natural selection is not part of the process. A lot of you guys seem to still think that that is what I am arguing for some reason. To me, natural selection means nothing unless their is diversity to choose from (the diversity coming from DNA mutations).

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20-12-2010, 06:08 AM
RE: My alternate view on evolution
(20-12-2010 03:49 AM)No J. Wrote:  Take one of the wheels of your motorcycle and see how well it rides. Would that have been a better analogy?

Better than anything I could come up with...

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20-12-2010, 06:48 AM
RE: My alternate view on evolution
(20-12-2010 04:22 AM)latvianxave8 Wrote:  Guys, I am not arguing that natural selection is not part of the process. A lot of you guys seem to still think that that is what I am arguing for some reason. To me, natural selection means nothing unless their is diversity to choose from (the diversity coming from DNA mutations).

Yes, but what everyone is trying to explain (at least the way I am understanding what people are saying) is that you can't place a greater importance on one or the other (mutations or selection). Both are nescessary for evolution, and in the absence of either, evolution would not happen. So saying natural selection means nothing without DNA mutations is true, but it's also true to say that DNA mutations mean nothing without natural selection. (All with regard to evolution of course). If this is, in fact what you are saying, then you simply don't have an alternative view on evolution.

So to say, "natural selection is not the main force driving evolution, dna mutations are." is incorrect. It's been explained already that DNA mutations are not a "driving force" but that aside, both natural selection and DNA mutations are both equally nescessary for evolution.

Just visiting.

-SR
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20-12-2010, 11:53 PM
RE: My alternate view on evolution
That was a satisfying thread. Big Grin

When I find myself in times of trouble, Richard Dawkins comes to me, speaking words of reason, now I see, now I see.
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30-12-2010, 10:09 AM
RE: My alternate view on evolution
If DNA mutations are equally important to evolution than natural selection, then how is evolution not random, if DNA mutations are by definition random?

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