My answer to GWG
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24-10-2015, 02:18 PM
RE: My answer to GWG
(24-10-2015 11:42 AM)Alla Wrote:  GWG:
The Bible claims that Jesus made the following comment:
Matthew 16:28
“Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
Clearly, he thought the end was very near.
One of those "some who are standing here" at that time when Jesus said those words was Apostle John. He didn't die yet. He is translated being, as Moses was, or Enoch was.
Jesus was not telling that the second coming would be in the first century.
"Near" can be thousands years in God's language. But wait, how would GWG know this?

Now now Alla, don't start playing semantics. "some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” is pretty clear.

Ahhh so John didn't die yet. Well first lets recap John:

John: The gospel identifies its author as "the disciple whom Jesus loved." Although the text does not name this disciple, by the beginning of the 2nd century, a tradition had begun to form which identified him with John the Apostle, one of the Twelve (Jesus' innermost circle). Although some notable New Testament scholars affirm traditional Johannine scholarship, the majority do not believe that John or one of the Apostles wrote it, and trace it instead to a "Johannine community" which traced its traditions to John.

Now how exactly have you ascertained that John flew into the sky like the mythical resurrection of jesus? I await this with great excitement.

Moses never existed. Fact.

Near was a word I used, not Jesus. "Some of you standing here...." is pretty straight forward....2,000 years later no jesus.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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24-10-2015, 02:22 PM
RE: My answer to GWG
(24-10-2015 11:53 AM)Alla Wrote:  GWG:

I Thessalonians 4: 16-18

“For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then WE WHO ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.”

The obvious fact is that the second coming was not forthcoming at that time, or even close to being near. The 2000-year delay is a strong piece of evidence that Christianity is a failed religion.

ALLA:
it is obvious because you think that "we" are ONLY those to whom Paul wrote in the first century. "We" are ALL Saints or members of the Church including those who will live in the future. WE are ONE - those who lived thousands years ago, who live now and in the future. It will be living Saints on Earth when Jesus comes.

Well that IS a great story Alla, could use some more dragons though. Now, because I love a good giggle, please establish how you have evidence of that? Define Saint? I love how each mormon thinks they are, or can be a "latter day saint"....you all think you are saints, that makes me giggle truly. So Saint Alla, explain to me how you have obtained your sainthood Smile

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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24-10-2015, 02:27 PM
RE: My answer to GWG
(24-10-2015 02:07 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  1) Granted. However, wouldn't one surmise that knowingly, or unknowingly in your case, believing in fairy tales as a means to comprehend the real world around us puts one at a distinct disadvantage, doesn't it? People who do heavy drugs, say like Heroin, would say "my drugs make me feel good, they bring me peace and happiness" I would counter it is a false perspective because drugs like that are bad for you....so is religion.
Anything that brings bad fruits is evil.
Drugs bring bad fruits - they destroy body.
My faith in Christ's story does not destroy my body. My faith in Christ's story has no such side effects. My faith brings only good fruits: hope, peace and happiness.
(24-10-2015 02:07 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  2) Define better person. If my child is dying, and you tell me "god has a plan", that does not quantify as being a better person because you believe in sky fairies.
Of course. So, my faith brings this good fruit, it makes be a better person: more kind, more compassionate, more honest, more hard working, more patient, more humble, more wise, more loving, more forgiving.
(24-10-2015 02:07 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  3) Define Spirit. Explain how one deciphers having "spirit" with them, versus imaginary friends, voices, hallucinations, mental problems, wishful thinking...
Spirit is one of God's Sons. He is my Brother, He is intelligent Being.
(24-10-2015 02:07 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  4) Define how you decipher how "he" gives you answers. if you look hard enough, and believe hard enough in anything, it will become a reality for you, whether it exists or not...like "spirit".
When I have a question and don't have an answer I ask. The answer comes. It is new idea/thought. After I act according to this idea/thought I know it was true.
(24-10-2015 02:07 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  5) Explain how you have compared and contrasted this magical spirit versus intuition.
what is intuition?
(24-10-2015 02:07 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  6) Define why a "spirit", "god" or whatever imaginary friend you have would give two shits what Alla forgot today, and endeavors to ensure this cute little human being lost in the 7 billion of other human beings is so special she has her own personal "Siri" to remind her of things....I would presume a life and universe creating super genie would have better things to do with its time...
Because if He doesn't He can not be God. God cares about every child.
He reminds me only about those things He wants me to remember.
If He tells me to do something and I forget He reminds just in the right time before it is too late.

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
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24-10-2015, 02:29 PM
RE: My answer to GWG
(24-10-2015 12:11 PM)Alla Wrote:  GWG:
“Jesus did not accomplish what Israel’s prophets said the Messiah was commissioned to do: He did not deliver the covenant people from their Gentile enemies, reassemble those scattered in the Diaspora, restore the Davidic kingdom, or establish universal peace (cf.Isa. 9:6–7; 11:7–12:16, etc.).

ALLA:
Because you don't know that in those verses Isaiah was talking about Second Coming of Messiah not His First Coming.
Isaiah also was talking about His First Coming. And he told us different things. Isa 53

mmmmm yes, I have heard that spin before. I love word semantics. Oh shit, he was just nailed to a cross and died.....well shit, now what do we do....

Who wrote Isaiah Alla?

It is also widely accepted that the traditionally prescribed author Isaiah ben Amozthis prophet did not write the entire book of Isaiah.

The observations which have led to this are as follows:

Historical situation → Chapters 40–55 presuppose that Jerusalem has already been destroyed (they are not framed as prophecy) and the Babylonian exile is already in effect – they speak from a present in which the Exile is about to end.

Chapters 56–66 assume an even later situation, in which the people are already returned to Jerusalem and the rebuilding of the Temple is already under way.

Anonymity → Isaiah's name suddenly stops being used after chapter 39.

Style → There is a sudden change in style and theology after chapter 40; numerous key words and phrases found in one section are not found in the other.

A compilation of multiple authors severely undermines any accuracy.

Look at you learning stuff Alla Big Grin

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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24-10-2015, 02:42 PM (This post was last modified: 24-10-2015 06:08 PM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: My answer to GWG
(24-10-2015 02:27 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(24-10-2015 02:07 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  1) Granted. However, wouldn't one surmise that knowingly, or unknowingly in your case, believing in fairy tales as a means to comprehend the real world around us puts one at a distinct disadvantage, doesn't it? People who do heavy drugs, say like Heroin, would say "my drugs make me feel good, they bring me peace and happiness" I would counter it is a false perspective because drugs like that are bad for you....so is religion.
Anything that brings bad fruits is evil.
Drugs bring bad fruits - they destroy body.
My faith in Christ's story does not destroy my body. My faith in Christ's story has no such side effects. My faith brings only good fruits: hope, peace and happiness.
(24-10-2015 02:07 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  2) Define better person. If my child is dying, and you tell me "god has a plan", that does not quantify as being a better person because you believe in sky fairies.
Of course. So, my faith brings this good fruit, it makes be a better person: more kind, more compassionate, more honest, more hard working, more patient, more humble, more wise, more loving, more forgiving.
(24-10-2015 02:07 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  3) Define Spirit. Explain how one deciphers having "spirit" with them, versus imaginary friends, voices, hallucinations, mental problems, wishful thinking...
Spirit is one of God's Sons. He is my Brother, He is intelligent Being.
(24-10-2015 02:07 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  4) Define how you decipher how "he" gives you answers. if you look hard enough, and believe hard enough in anything, it will become a reality for you, whether it exists or not...like "spirit".
When I have a question and don't have an answer I ask. The answer comes. It is new idea/thought. After I act according to this idea/thought I know it was true.
(24-10-2015 02:07 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  5) Explain how you have compared and contrasted this magical spirit versus intuition.
what is intuition?
(24-10-2015 02:07 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  6) Define why a "spirit", "god" or whatever imaginary friend you have would give two shits what Alla forgot today, and endeavors to ensure this cute little human being lost in the 7 billion of other human beings is so special she has her own personal "Siri" to remind her of things....I would presume a life and universe creating super genie would have better things to do with its time...
Because if He doesn't He can not be God. God cares about every child.
He reminds me only about those things He wants me to remember.
If He tells me to do something and I forget He reminds just in the right time before it is too late.

1) Your faith in Christ DOES have a detrimental effect.

Faith IS the delusion, belief without evidence. Faith is pretending to know things that you dont know. To say "I have faith in god" really means "I pretend to know things I don't know about god"....THINK about it, you dont know, you HOPE. Faith is an epistemology. It's a method and process people use to understand reality. Faith-based claims are knowledge claims. For example, "I have faith that jesus christ will heal my sickness because it says so in Luke" is a knowledge claim. The utterer of this statement is asserting jesus will heal her. Those who make faith claims are professing to know something about the external world. For example, when someone says "jesus walked on water" (matthew 14:22-33), that person is claiming TO KNOW there was an historical figure names jesus and that he, unaided by technology, literally walked across the surface of the water. This is a knowledge claim...an objective statement of fact.

Your religious beliefs typically depend on the community in which you were raised or lived. The spiritual experiences of people in ancient greece, medieval japan or 21st century saudia arabia do not lead to belief in christianity. It seems, therefore, that religious belief very likely tracks not truth but social conditioning.

Faith is a failed epistemology. Showing why faith fails has been done before and done well. (Bering 2011, Harris 2004, Loftus 2010, 2013, McCormick 2012, Schick & Vaughn 2008, Shermer 1997, 2011, Smith 1979, STenger & Barker 2012, Torres 2012, Wade 2009 etc)

If a belief is based on insufficient evidence, than any further conclusion drawn from the belief will at best be of questionable value. This can not point one to the path of truth. Here are five points believers/non believers should be able to agree upon.

1) There are different faith traditions.
2) Different faith traditions make different truth claims.
3) The truth claims of some faith traditions contradict the truth claims of other faith traditions. For example, Muslims believe muhammad (570-632) was the last prophet (Sura 33:40). Mormons believe Joseph Smith (1805-1844), who lived after muhammad was a prophet.
4) It cannot both be the case that muhammad was the last prophet, and someone who lived after him was also a prophet.
5) Therefore: At LEAST one of these claims must be false....perhaps both....

it is impossible to figure out which of these claims is incorrect if the tool one uses is faith. As a tool, as an epistemology, as a method of reasoning, as a process for knowing the world, faith cannot adjudicate between competing claims. The ONLY way to figure out which claims about the world are likely true, and which are likely false, is through reason and evidence. There is no other way.


2) Faith makes people think they have the right perspective, based on faith. it is what christians use to "judge" same sex marriage, stem cell research, abortions, etc..they use that faith to empower politicians to make laws that oppress others, restrict their access to neccessary medical procedures, and block the progress of science in finding future cures though stem cell research....there are MANY things that xtianity does MORe of, like MORE oppression, MORE judgement of others, MORE hypocrisy etc.

3) Wrong, Norgg the great and powerful OZ who lives inside the hollow Uranus is the true son. Disprove it.

4) Isn't the brain amazing? There are many reasons new ideas come, subsconscious and conscious thoughts lead to other thoughts...how do you think people who have created new things throughout time did so?

5) Intuition, a phenomenon of the mind, describes the ability to acquire knowledge without inference or the use of reason

6) Truly? I wonder where this god was when millions were being marched into the ovens in WW2, in fact, those were allegedly his "chosen people" and I am certain they uttered quite a few fervent and desperate prayers....all....unanswered. But Alla lost her keys and god speaks to her to tell her where they are, or whatever example you wish to provide..spend some time in a terminal ill children's ward and you will quickly lose faith in a god.

Off to go to Busch Gardens for the night, carry on.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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24-10-2015, 03:13 PM
RE: My answer to GWG
(24-10-2015 11:47 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Alla, What's the point of this thread?

Would you like me to move it to the boxing ring so that you can go 1 on 1 with GWoG?

There needs to be a point to starting a thread...even multiple ones? Gasp

Missed another memo. Damnit. Facepalm

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

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24-10-2015, 03:57 PM
RE: My answer to GWG
However men try to reach me, I return their love with my love; whatever path they may travel, it leads to me in the end.
— Chapter 4, verse 11


I know all past and all present and future existences, O Arjuna, but Me none yet knows.Chapter 7, verse 26

Thou seest Me as Time who kills, Time who brings all to doom,
The Slayer Time, Ancient of Days, come hither to consume;
Excepting thee, of all these hosts of hostile chiefs arrayed,
There shines not one shall leave alive the battlefield!

— Chapter 11, verse 32


Ask your spirit who said this.

And no cheating now. Google doesn't count as a spiritual guide.

Don't Live each day like it's your last. Live each day like you have 541 days after that one where every choice you make will have lasting implications to you and the world around you. ~ Tim Minchin
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24-10-2015, 04:00 PM
RE: My answer to GWG
(24-10-2015 02:18 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Now now Alla, don't start playing semantics. "some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” is pretty clear.
I agree. It is clear.
(24-10-2015 02:18 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Ahhh so John didn't die yet.
Yes, that is why in the last days(before the Second Coming) he must prophecy on Earth again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings. (Rev. 10:11)
(24-10-2015 02:18 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Now how exactly have you ascertained that John flew into the sky like the mythical resurrection of jesus? I await this with great excitement.
I am not sure. God didn't provide details. Probably, the same way Enoch or Moses were translated.
(24-10-2015 02:18 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Moses never existed. Fact.
You don't know this. Fact.
(24-10-2015 02:18 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Near was a word I used, not Jesus. "Some of you standing here...." is pretty straight forward....2,000 years later no jesus.
I agree. And John is still alive and he will again prophecy in the last days before peoples, tongues, kings.

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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24-10-2015, 04:09 PM
RE: My answer to GWG
(24-10-2015 03:57 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  However men try to reach me, I return their love with my love; whatever path they may travel, it leads to me in the end.
— Chapter 4, verse 11


I know all past and all present and future existences, O Arjuna, but Me none yet knows.Chapter 7, verse 26

Thou seest Me as Time who kills, Time who brings all to doom,
The Slayer Time, Ancient of Days, come hither to consume;
Excepting thee, of all these hosts of hostile chiefs arrayed,
There shines not one shall leave alive the battlefield!

— Chapter 11, verse 32


Ask your spirit who said this.

And no cheating now. Google doesn't count as a spiritual guide.
Let me share with you something.
If I can find an answer in google, or if I can simply ask you: who said this?" then why should I ask Spirit? Why would Spirit give me the answer if Spirit knows that I have ability to find an answer without His help?
Spirit teaches me only then when NOBODY can give me the right answer.
Spirit teaches me when I have to make the right decision and I don't know what it should be. God helps me to avoid wrong choices if I ask Him. But if I can find an answer in google I better do some research on my own. Work made a monkey human. Big Grin
So, who said this? Smile

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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24-10-2015, 04:09 PM
RE: My answer to GWG
(24-10-2015 04:00 PM)Alla Wrote:  And John is still alive and he will again prophecy in the last days before peoples, tongues, kings.

What is your evidence for this remarkable claim? Consider

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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