My answer to GWG
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
24-10-2015, 04:55 PM
RE: My answer to GWG
(24-10-2015 02:29 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(24-10-2015 12:11 PM)Alla Wrote:  GWG:
“Jesus did not accomplish what Israel’s prophets said the Messiah was commissioned to do: He did not deliver the covenant people from their Gentile enemies, reassemble those scattered in the Diaspora, restore the Davidic kingdom, or establish universal peace (cf.Isa. 9:6–7; 11:7–12:16, etc.).

ALLA:
Because you don't know that in those verses Isaiah was talking about Second Coming of Messiah not His First Coming.
Isaiah also was talking about His First Coming. And he told us different things. Isa 53

mmmmm yes, I have heard that spin before. I love word semantics. Oh shit, he was just nailed to a cross and died.....well shit, now what do we do....

Who wrote Isaiah Alla?

It is also widely accepted that the traditionally prescribed author Isaiah ben Amozthis prophet did not write the entire book of Isaiah.

The observations which have led to this are as follows:

Historical situation → Chapters 40–55 presuppose that Jerusalem has already been destroyed (they are not framed as prophecy) and the Babylonian exile is already in effect – they speak from a present in which the Exile is about to end.

Chapters 56–66 assume an even later situation, in which the people are already returned to Jerusalem and the rebuilding of the Temple is already under way.

Anonymity → Isaiah's name suddenly stops being used after chapter 39.

Style → There is a sudden change in style and theology after chapter 40; numerous key words and phrases found in one section are not found in the other.

A compilation of multiple authors severely undermines any accuracy.

Look at you learning stuff Alla Big Grin

GWG, you quoted Isaiah's prophecies to prove your point. I pointes that those prophecies do not prove your point. Those prophecies are not about first coming of Messiah but about His second coming.
I am not arguing with atheists about who wrote those prophecies.

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-10-2015, 05:09 PM
RE: My answer to GWG
(24-10-2015 04:55 PM)Alla Wrote:  GWG, you quoted Isaiah's prophecies to prove your point. I pointes that those prophecies do not prove your point. Those prophecies are not about first coming of Messiah but about His second coming.

Except that that passage has nothing to do with the messiah at all. Drinking Beverage

Going further, the allegeded messiah Jebus didn't do what the actual messiah was supposed to do. There was NEVER supposed to be a second coming.

He was supposed to do it right the FIRST time.

Since the guy didn't, he couldn't hav been it.

Period.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Momsurroundedbyboys's post
24-10-2015, 05:25 PM
RE: My answer to GWG
(24-10-2015 05:09 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Except that that passage has nothing to do with the messiah at all. Drinking Beverage
I respect your understanding of those verses. I don't have a goal to convince people to accept another interpretation/ understanding. Period. Smile

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-10-2015, 06:28 PM
RE: My answer to GWG
(24-10-2015 04:00 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(24-10-2015 02:18 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Now now Alla, don't start playing semantics. "some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” is pretty clear.
I agree. It is clear.
(24-10-2015 02:18 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Ahhh so John didn't die yet.
Yes, that is why in the last days(before the Second Coming) he must prophecy on Earth again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings. (Rev. 10:11)
(24-10-2015 02:18 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Now how exactly have you ascertained that John flew into the sky like the mythical resurrection of jesus? I await this with great excitement.
I am not sure. God didn't provide details. Probably, the same way Enoch or Moses were translated.
(24-10-2015 02:18 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Moses never existed. Fact.
You don't know this. Fact.
(24-10-2015 02:18 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Near was a word I used, not Jesus. "Some of you standing here...." is pretty straight forward....2,000 years later no jesus.
I agree. And John is still alive and he will again prophecy in the last days before peoples, tongues, kings.

Blink

Well outside of never never land where people make up shit under the guise of religious "tradition", all evidence available shows that John was the only apostle to escape a violent death, and was banished to the Island of Patmos from 95-99 CE and died around 100 CE in Ephesus. He is the one apostle that rumor had it that he would never die but that’s contrary to biblical teaching for its appointed for all to die and then comes the judgment (Heb 9:27).

No dear, Moses never existed, he was one of many characters within the bible that was a compilation of older myths...

The existence of Moses as well as the veracity of the Exodus story are disputed among archaeologists and Egyptologists, with experts in the field of biblical criticism citing logical inconsistencies, new archaeological evidence, historical evidence, and related origin myths in Canaanite culture.

When you analyze the Pentateuch, you will find doublets and triplets. These are pairs of stories which occur in two separate locations in the text. The doublets generally do not agree fully; there are usually minor differences between the stories. R.E. Friedman, in his 1997 book "Who Wrote the Bible?" lists a number of them:

Two creation stories in Genesis.
Two descriptions of the Abrahamic covenant.
Two stories of the naming of Isaac.
Two instances where Abraham deceived a king by introducing his wife Sarah as his sister.
Two stories of Jacob traveling to Mesopotamia
Two stories of a revelation at Beth-el to Jacob.
Two accounts of God changing Jacob's name to Israel
Two instances where Moses extracted water from two different rocks at two different locations called Meribah.

These doublets appeared to contradict each other. In most cases, one referred to God as Yahweh while the other used the term Elohim.

Theologians reason that a much more logical explanation is that the books were written by multiple authors who lived long after the events described. That would have allowed the oral tradition to be passed from generation to generation in different areas of the land so that they had a chance to deviate from each other before being written down.

Both Judaism and Christianity assumed that the Pentateuch -- the first five books of the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) were written by Moses, as the Bible itself states. However, in recent centuries, alternative authorship has been proposed. The documentary hypothesis is now accepted by essentially all mainline and liberal theologians.

- 11th Century CE: Isaac ibn Yashush suggested that the list of the Edomite kings in Genesis 36 was added by an unknown person after Moses died. For this assertion, he became known as "Isaac the Blunderer." 1

- 15th Century: Bishop Tostatus suggested that certain passages were written by one of the prophets, not by Moses.

- 16th Century: Andreas van Maes suggested that an editor added additional material to some of Moses' writings.

- 17th Century: Thomas Hobbes prepared a collection of passages that seemed to negate Moses' authorship.

- 18th Century: Three investigators (Witter, Astruc and Eichhorn) independently concluded that doublets in the Torah were written by two different authors. A doublet is a story that is described twice.

- 19th Century: Scholars noticed that there were a few triplets in the Torah. This indicated that a third author was involved. Then, they determined that the book of Deuteronomy was written in a different language style from the remaining 4 books in the Pentateuch. Finally, by the end of the 19th Century, liberal scholars reached a consensus that 4 authors and one redactor (editor) had been actively involved in the writing of the Pentateuch.

- 20th Century: Academics have continued to refine the Documentary Hypothesis by identifying which verses (and parts of verses) were authored by the various writers. They have also attempted to uncover the names of the authors. In 1943, Pope Pius XII issued an encyclical Divino Afflante Spiritu in which he urged academics to study the sources of Biblical texts. Recent archaeological discoveries and new linguistic analysis tools have facilitated the research into the hypothesis.

Belief in the documentary hypothesis was triggered by a number of factors, such as:

- Anachronisms, like the list of the Edomite kings;

- Duplicate and triplicate passages

- Various passages portrayed God in different ways;

- The flood story appears to involve the meshing of two separate stories;

- The belief, centuries ago, by archaeologists and linguists that writing among the ancient Hebrews only developed after the events portrayed in the Pentateuch. Thus, Moses would have been incapable of writing the first five books of the Hebrew Scriptures.

These factors led theologians to the conclusion that the Pentateuch is a hybrid document which was written well after "Moses" death, and much later than the events portrayed. The authors and redactors are unknown, and are commonly referred to as authors J, E, P and D.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes goodwithoutgod's post
24-10-2015, 06:33 PM (This post was last modified: 24-10-2015 06:45 PM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: My answer to GWG
(24-10-2015 04:28 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(24-10-2015 02:42 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  1) Your faith in Christ DOES have a detrimental effect.
To say "I have faith in god" really means "I pretend to know things I don't know about god"....
Not at all. To have faith in Christ means only one thing - to trust Him enough that I would keep His commandments. He promised that if I keep His commandments certain things WILL happen to me.
So, I have faith, I keep His commandments and what do I have? I have evidence/proof that His promise(word) is true. Certain things happens when I keep His commandments.
I start with "I don't know but trust Lord" and later I KNOW that this about God(Christ) - He didn't lie. His words are true.

(24-10-2015 02:18 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  6) Truly? I wonder where this god was when millions were being marched into the ovens in WW2,
It is our job to prevent and fight evil here on earth. God gives us moral agency and laws and light of Christ (ability to know the difference between good and evil)so we can GOVERN OURSELVES.
(24-10-2015 02:18 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  in fact, those were allegedly his "chosen people" and I am certain they uttered quite a few fervent and desperate prayers....all....unanswered.
They were not His covenant people any more.

Alla, "to trust Him enough that I would keep His commandments. He promised that if I keep His commandments certain things WILL happen to me."

mmmm yes, now how have you determined who He is since He never wrote down a single word, and no one who EVER wrote of jesus knew him?

Alla, "It is our job to prevent and fight evil here on earth. God gives us moral agency and laws and light of Christ (ability to know the difference between good and evil)so we can GOVERN OURSELVES."

Great story, not sure how a caring god could sit back and watch millions die, while the bible claims all one has to do is pray....lets take an educational peek:

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." (Matthew 7:7)

"Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 18:19)

"And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive." (Matthew 21:22)

"Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them." (Mark 11:24)

Consider

ahh thats right, your mythical ancestors in North America that were infighting were right? Oh wait, I eviscerated that entire claim to great detail in our little mormon discussion now didn't I?

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-10-2015, 06:41 PM
RE: My answer to GWG
(24-10-2015 04:45 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(24-10-2015 02:22 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Well that IS a great story Alla, could use some more dragons though. Now, because I love a good giggle, please establish how you have evidence of that? Define Saint? I love how each mormon thinks they are, or can be a "latter day saint"....you all think you are saints, that makes me giggle truly. So Saint Alla, explain to me how you have obtained your sainthood Smile
OK, I will explain to you what Saint really means.
But before this I will remind you that "we" are ALL members of the Church, not only those who lived in the first century. "WE" are one, all of us.

Saint is any person who makes covenant with God and every day serves God by making sacrifices. It is not easy work to do.
So, those who make sacrifices while serving God every day are called His people or Saints.
Someone doesn't need to die or to be tortured to be Saint of God.
During universal apostasy Christians distorted many true things. They distorted true meaning of word "saint".
1st Cor 1: 2 to them that are sanctified in Jesus Christ, called to be saints.
I am sanctified in Jesus Christ when I made covenant with Him.

Big Grin

I am well versed in your dogma and propaganda Alla, remember?

Which god? There have been, and currently are, thousands of alleged gods..

How do you know Jesus? Which Jesus, there were several. How does one make covenant with a dead man exactly.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-10-2015, 08:42 PM
RE: My answer to GWG
(24-10-2015 11:18 AM)Alla Wrote:  GOODWITHOUTGOD:
"Now, the question I have, is why can people easily believe the Jesus fairy tale, yet dismiss stories of aliens, fairies, or even bigfoot? "

ALLA:
Because :
1) Jesus's story gives me hope and peace and happiness.
2) it helps me to be a better person so I can have eternal life.
3) I can have Spirit with me
4) and He(Spirit) gives me answers to many questions.
5) He(Spirit) warns me when there is a danger.
6)He(Spirit) reminds me things that I forget but very important to be remembered.

Some questions:
- Where on the scale of belief do you lie? Say 0% is no confidence that your beliefs are true and 100% is no doubt that your belief is true.
- Could someone hold a belief that gives them hope, gives them peace, helps them be a better person, makes them feel like they have answers to life's questions, and reminds them of things... and yet for that belief to be false?
- Some on this forum find those benefits without following Joseph Smith. Some Muslims find those benefits? How am I to know who amongst you is most correct if you all tell me your beliefs are true and all give much the same reason for believing?

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Hafnof's post
24-10-2015, 08:59 PM
RE: My answer to GWG
(24-10-2015 02:42 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(24-10-2015 02:27 PM)Alla Wrote:  Anything that brings bad fruits is evil.
Drugs bring bad fruits - they destroy body.
My faith in Christ's story does not destroy my body. My faith in Christ's story has no such side effects. My faith brings only good fruits: hope, peace and happiness.
Of course. So, my faith brings this good fruit, it makes be a better person: more kind, more compassionate, more honest, more hard working, more patient, more humble, more wise, more loving, more forgiving.
Spirit is one of God's Sons. He is my Brother, He is intelligent Being.
When I have a question and don't have an answer I ask. The answer comes. It is new idea/thought. After I act according to this idea/thought I know it was true.
what is intuition?
Because if He doesn't He can not be God. God cares about every child.
He reminds me only about those things He wants me to remember.
If He tells me to do something and I forget He reminds just in the right time before it is too late.

1) Your faith in Christ DOES have a detrimental effect.

Faith IS the delusion, belief without evidence. Faith is pretending to know things that you dont know. To say "I have faith in god" really means "I pretend to know things I don't know about god"....THINK about it, you dont know, you HOPE. Faith is an epistemology. It's a method and process people use to understand reality. Faith-based claims are knowledge claims. For example, "I have faith that jesus christ will heal my sickness because it says so in Luke" is a knowledge claim. The utterer of this statement is asserting jesus will heal her. Those who make faith claims are professing to know something about the external world. For example, when someone says "jesus walked on water" (matthew 14:22-33), that person is claiming TO KNOW there was an historical figure names jesus and that he, unaided by technology, literally walked across the surface of the water. This is a knowledge claim...an objective statement of fact.

Your religious beliefs typically depend on the community in which you were raised or lived. The spiritual experiences of people in ancient greece, medieval japan or 21st century saudia arabia do not lead to belief in christianity. It seems, therefore, that religious belief very likely tracks not truth but social conditioning.

Faith is a failed epistemology. Showing why faith fails has been done before and done well. (Bering 2011, Harris 2004, Loftus 2010, 2013, McCormick 2012, Schick & Vaughn 2008, Shermer 1997, 2011, Smith 1979, STenger & Barker 2012, Torres 2012, Wade 2009 etc)

If a belief is based on insufficient evidence, than any further conclusion drawn from the belief will at best be of questionable value. This can not point one to the path of truth. Here are five points believers/non believers should be able to agree upon.

1) There are different faith traditions.
2) Different faith traditions make different truth claims.
3) The truth claims of some faith traditions contradict the truth claims of other faith traditions. For example, Muslims believe muhammad (570-632) was the last prophet (Sura 33:40). Mormons believe Joseph Smith (1805-1844), who lived after muhammad was a prophet.
4) It cannot both be the case that muhammad was the last prophet, and someone who lived after him was also a prophet.
5) Therefore: At LEAST one of these claims must be false....perhaps both....

it is impossible to figure out which of these claims is incorrect if the tool one uses is faith. As a tool, as an epistemology, as a method of reasoning, as a process for knowing the world, faith cannot adjudicate between competing claims. The ONLY way to figure out which claims about the world are likely true, and which are likely false, is through reason and evidence. There is no other way.


2) Faith makes people think they have the right perspective, based on faith. it is what christians use to "judge" same sex marriage, stem cell research, abortions, etc..they use that faith to empower politicians to make laws that oppress others, restrict their access to neccessary medical procedures, and block the progress of science in finding future cures though stem cell research....there are MANY things that xtianity does MORe of, like MORE oppression, MORE judgement of others, MORE hypocrisy etc.

3) Wrong, Norgg the great and powerful OZ who lives inside the hollow Uranus is the true son. Disprove it.

4) Isn't the brain amazing? There are many reasons new ideas come, subsconscious and conscious thoughts lead to other thoughts...how do you think people who have created new things throughout time did so?

5) Intuition, a phenomenon of the mind, describes the ability to acquire knowledge without inference or the use of reason

6) Truly? I wonder where this god was when millions were being marched into the ovens in WW2, in fact, those were allegedly his "chosen people" and I am certain they uttered quite a few fervent and desperate prayers....all....unanswered. But Alla lost her keys and god speaks to her to tell her where they are, or whatever example you wish to provide..spend some time in a terminal ill children's ward and you will quickly lose faith in a god.

Off to go to Busch Gardens for the night, carry on.
The holocaust was prophesied. Also, it was stated that no prayer would save those involved. Judaism will be brought back under the direction and love of God at the time that God so chooses.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-10-2015, 09:12 PM
RE: My answer to GWG
(24-10-2015 06:28 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(24-10-2015 04:00 PM)Alla Wrote:  I agree. It is clear.
Yes, that is why in the last days(before the Second Coming) he must prophecy on Earth again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings. (Rev. 10:11)
I am not sure. God didn't provide details. Probably, the same way Enoch or Moses were translated.
You don't know this. Fact.
I agree. And John is still alive and he will again prophecy in the last days before peoples, tongues, kings.

Blink

Well outside of never never land where people make up shit under the guise of religious "tradition", all evidence available shows that John was the only apostle to escape a violent death, and was banished to the Island of Patmos from 95-99 CE and died around 100 CE in Ephesus. He is the one apostle that rumor had it that he would never die but that’s contrary to biblical teaching for its appointed for all to die and then comes the judgment (Heb 9:27).

No dear, Moses never existed, he was one of many characters within the bible that was a compilation of older myths...

The existence of Moses as well as the veracity of the Exodus story are disputed among archaeologists and Egyptologists, with experts in the field of biblical criticism citing logical inconsistencies, new archaeological evidence, historical evidence, and related origin myths in Canaanite culture.

When you analyze the Pentateuch, you will find doublets and triplets. These are pairs of stories which occur in two separate locations in the text. The doublets generally do not agree fully; there are usually minor differences between the stories. R.E. Friedman, in his 1997 book "Who Wrote the Bible?" lists a number of them:

Two creation stories in Genesis.
Two descriptions of the Abrahamic covenant.
Two stories of the naming of Isaac.
Two instances where Abraham deceived a king by introducing his wife Sarah as his sister.
Two stories of Jacob traveling to Mesopotamia
Two stories of a revelation at Beth-el to Jacob.
Two accounts of God changing Jacob's name to Israel
Two instances where Moses extracted water from two different rocks at two different locations called Meribah.

These doublets appeared to contradict each other. In most cases, one referred to God as Yahweh while the other used the term Elohim.

Theologians reason that a much more logical explanation is that the books were written by multiple authors who lived long after the events described. That would have allowed the oral tradition to be passed from generation to generation in different areas of the land so that they had a chance to deviate from each other before being written down.

Both Judaism and Christianity assumed that the Pentateuch -- the first five books of the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) were written by Moses, as the Bible itself states. However, in recent centuries, alternative authorship has been proposed. The documentary hypothesis is now accepted by essentially all mainline and liberal theologians.

- 11th Century CE: Isaac ibn Yashush suggested that the list of the Edomite kings in Genesis 36 was added by an unknown person after Moses died. For this assertion, he became known as "Isaac the Blunderer." 1

- 15th Century: Bishop Tostatus suggested that certain passages were written by one of the prophets, not by Moses.

- 16th Century: Andreas van Maes suggested that an editor added additional material to some of Moses' writings.

- 17th Century: Thomas Hobbes prepared a collection of passages that seemed to negate Moses' authorship.

- 18th Century: Three investigators (Witter, Astruc and Eichhorn) independently concluded that doublets in the Torah were written by two different authors. A doublet is a story that is described twice.

- 19th Century: Scholars noticed that there were a few triplets in the Torah. This indicated that a third author was involved. Then, they determined that the book of Deuteronomy was written in a different language style from the remaining 4 books in the Pentateuch. Finally, by the end of the 19th Century, liberal scholars reached a consensus that 4 authors and one redactor (editor) had been actively involved in the writing of the Pentateuch.

- 20th Century: Academics have continued to refine the Documentary Hypothesis by identifying which verses (and parts of verses) were authored by the various writers. They have also attempted to uncover the names of the authors. In 1943, Pope Pius XII issued an encyclical Divino Afflante Spiritu in which he urged academics to study the sources of Biblical texts. Recent archaeological discoveries and new linguistic analysis tools have facilitated the research into the hypothesis.

Belief in the documentary hypothesis was triggered by a number of factors, such as:

- Anachronisms, like the list of the Edomite kings;

- Duplicate and triplicate passages

- Various passages portrayed God in different ways;

- The flood story appears to involve the meshing of two separate stories;

- The belief, centuries ago, by archaeologists and linguists that writing among the ancient Hebrews only developed after the events portrayed in the Pentateuch. Thus, Moses would have been incapable of writing the first five books of the Hebrew Scriptures.

These factors led theologians to the conclusion that the Pentateuch is a hybrid document which was written well after "Moses" death, and much later than the events portrayed. The authors and redactors are unknown, and are commonly referred to as authors J, E, P and D.
None of that proves that Moses wasn't real. If the things in the Torah where written numerous times by numerous people then it lends credence to the validity of it. First y'all say that the experience of an individual isn't valid as evidence, then you go on to say that more than one person with a similar story is an inconsistency instead of verification of the story or lesson. Make up your mind.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-10-2015, 09:18 PM
RE: My answer to GWG
(24-10-2015 08:42 PM)Hafnof Wrote:  
(24-10-2015 11:18 AM)Alla Wrote:  GOODWITHOUTGOD:
"Now, the question I have, is why can people easily believe the Jesus fairy tale, yet dismiss stories of aliens, fairies, or even bigfoot? "

ALLA:
Because :
1) Jesus's story gives me hope and peace and happiness.
2) it helps me to be a better person so I can have eternal life.
3) I can have Spirit with me
4) and He(Spirit) gives me answers to many questions.
5) He(Spirit) warns me when there is a danger.
6)He(Spirit) reminds me things that I forget but very important to be remembered.

Some questions:
- Where on the scale of belief do you lie? Say 0% is no confidence that your beliefs are true and 100% is no doubt that your belief is true.
- Could someone hold a belief that gives them hope, gives them peace, helps them be a better person, makes them feel like they have answers to life's questions, and reminds them of things... and yet for that belief to be false?
- Some on this forum find those benefits without following Joseph Smith. Some Muslims find those benefits? How am I to know who amongst you is most correct if you all tell me your beliefs are true and all give much the same reason for believing?
There is not a single prophet. Never was. Prophets come by the will of God. For a religion to attest that a prophet was the last or first or only one is a matter of greed. Look at all the prophets in scripture. There are quite a few. Some may be more significant than others. Some may be more without fault under God, but there was never just one. By the way the second coming of the Crist will be through a multitude of like minded individuals under the selfless direction of God.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: