My answer to GWG
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
25-10-2015, 10:54 AM
RE: My answer to GWG
(25-10-2015 03:55 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(25-10-2015 03:12 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Oh, so unless we read it with your conspiracy seeking presuppositions, then we aren't reading it in the proper context?

Why am I not surprised?
No one said anything about conspiracy. If you're gonna read a book to understand the story would you read a sentence, paragraph, or the whole book?

LOL, except that you read the book and accept it as truth. Putting the Bible into *proper context* requires studying history, cultural anthropology, archeology, linguistics, and a whole slew of other academic fields.

You've never given any indication that you're even remotely close to exploring the Bible in *proper context* you troglodyte.

[Image: E3WvRwZ.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-10-2015, 11:25 AM
RE: My answer to GWG
(25-10-2015 10:54 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(25-10-2015 03:55 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  No one said anything about conspiracy. If you're gonna read a book to understand the story would you read a sentence, paragraph, or the whole book?

LOL, except that you read the book and accept it as truth. Putting the Bible into *proper context* requires studying history, cultural anthropology, archeology, linguistics, and a whole slew of other academic fields.

You've never given any indication that you're even remotely close to exploring the Bible in *proper context* you troglodyte.
So you're saying if you have a grasp on other fields of study that you can read a single sentence of a book and grasp the message? I really don't agree with that superior logic.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-10-2015, 11:33 AM
RE: My answer to GWG
(25-10-2015 11:25 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(25-10-2015 10:54 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  LOL, except that you read the book and accept it as truth. Putting the Bible into *proper context* requires studying history, cultural anthropology, archeology, linguistics, and a whole slew of other academic fields.

You've never given any indication that you're even remotely close to exploring the Bible in *proper context* you troglodyte.
So you're saying if you have a grasp on other fields of study that you can read a single sentence of a book and grasp the message? I really don't agree with that superior logic.

That's not even remotely what he said. Are you being dishonest or are you really that dense?

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like unfogged's post
25-10-2015, 11:35 AM
RE: My answer to GWG
(25-10-2015 11:33 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(25-10-2015 11:25 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  So you're saying if you have a grasp on other fields of study that you can read a single sentence of a book and grasp the message? I really don't agree with that superior logic.

That's not even remotely what he said. Are you being dishonest or are you really that dense?
Pretty sure that response was for evolutionkills. Not dense and definately not a liar. Thanks.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-10-2015, 01:06 PM
RE: My answer to GWG
(25-10-2015 11:25 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(25-10-2015 10:54 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  LOL, except that you read the book and accept it as truth. Putting the Bible into *proper context* requires studying history, cultural anthropology, archeology, linguistics, and a whole slew of other academic fields.

You've never given any indication that you're even remotely close to exploring the Bible in *proper context* you troglodyte.
So you're saying if you have a grasp on other fields of study that you can read a single sentence of a book and grasp the message? I really don't agree with that superior logic.

No you ignoramous. Simply pointing out that if you want to play the "context" card, you are out of your fucking depth by a long country mile. So far all you've indicated here is that your use of "proper context" is synonymous with your particular cherry picked interpritation, totally deviod of any outside knowledge such as cultural anthropology. In a word, "armchair apologetics".

[Image: E3WvRwZ.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 5 users Like EvolutionKills's post
25-10-2015, 01:42 PM (This post was last modified: 25-10-2015 02:02 PM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: My answer to GWG
(24-10-2015 09:12 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(24-10-2015 06:28 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Blink

Well outside of never never land where people make up shit under the guise of religious "tradition", all evidence available shows that John was the only apostle to escape a violent death, and was banished to the Island of Patmos from 95-99 CE and died around 100 CE in Ephesus. He is the one apostle that rumor had it that he would never die but that’s contrary to biblical teaching for its appointed for all to die and then comes the judgment (Heb 9:27).

No dear, Moses never existed, he was one of many characters within the bible that was a compilation of older myths...

The existence of Moses as well as the veracity of the Exodus story are disputed among archaeologists and Egyptologists, with experts in the field of biblical criticism citing logical inconsistencies, new archaeological evidence, historical evidence, and related origin myths in Canaanite culture.

When you analyze the Pentateuch, you will find doublets and triplets. These are pairs of stories which occur in two separate locations in the text. The doublets generally do not agree fully; there are usually minor differences between the stories. R.E. Friedman, in his 1997 book "Who Wrote the Bible?" lists a number of them:

Two creation stories in Genesis.
Two descriptions of the Abrahamic covenant.
Two stories of the naming of Isaac.
Two instances where Abraham deceived a king by introducing his wife Sarah as his sister.
Two stories of Jacob traveling to Mesopotamia
Two stories of a revelation at Beth-el to Jacob.
Two accounts of God changing Jacob's name to Israel
Two instances where Moses extracted water from two different rocks at two different locations called Meribah.

These doublets appeared to contradict each other. In most cases, one referred to God as Yahweh while the other used the term Elohim.

Theologians reason that a much more logical explanation is that the books were written by multiple authors who lived long after the events described. That would have allowed the oral tradition to be passed from generation to generation in different areas of the land so that they had a chance to deviate from each other before being written down.

Both Judaism and Christianity assumed that the Pentateuch -- the first five books of the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) were written by Moses, as the Bible itself states. However, in recent centuries, alternative authorship has been proposed. The documentary hypothesis is now accepted by essentially all mainline and liberal theologians.

- 11th Century CE: Isaac ibn Yashush suggested that the list of the Edomite kings in Genesis 36 was added by an unknown person after Moses died. For this assertion, he became known as "Isaac the Blunderer." 1

- 15th Century: Bishop Tostatus suggested that certain passages were written by one of the prophets, not by Moses.

- 16th Century: Andreas van Maes suggested that an editor added additional material to some of Moses' writings.

- 17th Century: Thomas Hobbes prepared a collection of passages that seemed to negate Moses' authorship.

- 18th Century: Three investigators (Witter, Astruc and Eichhorn) independently concluded that doublets in the Torah were written by two different authors. A doublet is a story that is described twice.

- 19th Century: Scholars noticed that there were a few triplets in the Torah. This indicated that a third author was involved. Then, they determined that the book of Deuteronomy was written in a different language style from the remaining 4 books in the Pentateuch. Finally, by the end of the 19th Century, liberal scholars reached a consensus that 4 authors and one redactor (editor) had been actively involved in the writing of the Pentateuch.

- 20th Century: Academics have continued to refine the Documentary Hypothesis by identifying which verses (and parts of verses) were authored by the various writers. They have also attempted to uncover the names of the authors. In 1943, Pope Pius XII issued an encyclical Divino Afflante Spiritu in which he urged academics to study the sources of Biblical texts. Recent archaeological discoveries and new linguistic analysis tools have facilitated the research into the hypothesis.

Belief in the documentary hypothesis was triggered by a number of factors, such as:

- Anachronisms, like the list of the Edomite kings;

- Duplicate and triplicate passages

- Various passages portrayed God in different ways;

- The flood story appears to involve the meshing of two separate stories;

- The belief, centuries ago, by archaeologists and linguists that writing among the ancient Hebrews only developed after the events portrayed in the Pentateuch. Thus, Moses would have been incapable of writing the first five books of the Hebrew Scriptures.

These factors led theologians to the conclusion that the Pentateuch is a hybrid document which was written well after "Moses" death, and much later than the events portrayed. The authors and redactors are unknown, and are commonly referred to as authors J, E, P and D.
None of that proves that Moses wasn't real. If the things in the Torah where written numerous times by numerous people then it lends credence to the validity of it. First y'all say that the experience of an individual isn't valid as evidence, then you go on to say that more than one person with a similar story is an inconsistency instead of verification of the story or lesson. Make up your mind.

Let me help you with that pops. Knowledge is empowering. I highly recommend the following two books, which I have in my personal library of over 2,000 books.

Boadt, L. (1984) Reading the Old Testament: An Introduction. New York. Paulist Press. Print.

Murdock, D. M. (2014) Did Moses exist? The myth of the Israelite lawgiver. Seattle. Stellar House Publishing. Print.

May the learning begin.....


[Image: 29pc58h.jpg]

and because I am bored, here are five of my bookshelves n the room I am in right now....read pops, learn..

[Image: 2v1m3hg.jpg]

[Image: 30c7y2u.jpg]

[Image: 2iqkdc4.jpg]

[Image: f1z9di.jpg]

[Image: 2ekon0z.jpg]

Thumbsup

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 8 users Like goodwithoutgod's post
25-10-2015, 02:43 PM
RE: My answer to GWG
(25-10-2015 01:42 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(24-10-2015 09:12 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  None of that proves that Moses wasn't real. If the things in the Torah where written numerous times by numerous people then it lends credence to the validity of it. First y'all say that the experience of an individual isn't valid as evidence, then you go on to say that more than one person with a similar story is an inconsistency instead of verification of the story or lesson. Make up your mind.

Let me help you with that pops. Knowledge is empowering. I highly recommend the following two books, which I have in my personal library of over 2,000 books.

Boadt, L. (1984) Reading the Old Testament: An Introduction. New York. Paulist Press. Print.

Murdock, D. M. (2014) Did Moses exist? The myth of the Israelite lawgiver. Seattle. Stellar House Publishing. Print.

May the learning begin.....


[Image: 29pc58h.jpg]

and because I am bored, here are five of my bookshelves n the room I am in right now....read pops, learn..

[Image: 2v1m3hg.jpg]

[Image: 30c7y2u.jpg]

[Image: 2iqkdc4.jpg]

[Image: f1z9di.jpg]

[Image: 2ekon0z.jpg]

Thumbsup
What are you trying to help me with again? Oh yeah, Moses wasn't real in any way or at any time. And you know this because of your admirable collection of books. Most all, indeed all have a biased, subjective view, one way or another. Some most likely based on literal interpretations of things written long ago in a literally more poetic time.

Anyway, yeah, what about Moses now?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-10-2015, 03:29 PM
RE: My answer to GWG
(25-10-2015 02:43 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(25-10-2015 01:42 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Let me help you with that pops. Knowledge is empowering. I highly recommend the following two books, which I have in my personal library of over 2,000 books.

Boadt, L. (1984) Reading the Old Testament: An Introduction. New York. Paulist Press. Print.

Murdock, D. M. (2014) Did Moses exist? The myth of the Israelite lawgiver. Seattle. Stellar House Publishing. Print.

May the learning begin.....


[Image: 29pc58h.jpg]

and because I am bored, here are five of my bookshelves n the room I am in right now....read pops, learn..

[Image: 2v1m3hg.jpg]

[Image: 30c7y2u.jpg]

[Image: 2iqkdc4.jpg]

[Image: f1z9di.jpg]

[Image: 2ekon0z.jpg]

Thumbsup
What are you trying to help me with again? Oh yeah, Moses wasn't real in any way or at any time. And you know this because of your admirable collection of books. Most all, indeed all have a biased, subjective view, one way or another. Some most likely based on literal interpretations of things written long ago in a literally more poetic time.

Anyway, yeah, what about Moses now?

Reading comprehension not very high today pops?

First book of the two I recommended for you was written by Lawrence Boadt.

Lawrence Edward Boadt, C.S.P. (October 26, 1942 – July 24, 2010), was an American Paulist priest and Biblical scholar, who advocated on behalf of improved communication and understanding between Christians and Jews.

Boadt was born in Los Angeles, California, on October 26, 1942. After high school, he entered the novitiate of the Paulist Fathers in Vineland, New Jersey, where he made his initial promises as a member of the congregation on September 8, 1962.

He then earned bachelor's and master's degrees from St. Paul's College in Washington, D.C., the house of formation for the Paulist Fathers. He received ordination as a priest in 1969 and then attended The Catholic University of America, where he was awarded a master's degree and a Licentiate in Theology. At the Pontifical Biblical Institute in Rome, Boadt was granted a licentiate in Sacred Scripture and a Doctorate in Biblical Studies and Near Eastern languages. He taught at Fordham University, St. John's University and at the Washington Theological Union.

Boadt was selected to serve as the scripture editor of the Paulist Press, a publishing house established by the Paulist Fathers in 1881. His 1984 book Reading the Old Testament: An Introduction was intended to explain the Old Testament to Christians. He deeply believed in the principle that Christians could best understand their faith by studying Judaism and suggested that Christians "could gain some feeling for the Old Testament by attending a Friday night Sabbath service at a local temple or synagogue". Other books he authored include the 1980 work Ezekiel's Oracles Against Egypt: A Literary and Philological Study of Ezekiel 29-32, the 1986 book Introduction to Wisdom Literature, Proverbs and the 1999 text Why I Am a Priest: Thirty Success Stories. He was named President of the Paulist Press in 1998, holding that position until shortly before his death and overseeing the publishing of an average of 80 books annually.

yeah.......

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like goodwithoutgod's post
25-10-2015, 03:44 PM
RE: My answer to GWG
GwG - your patience is admirable.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Anjele's post
25-10-2015, 04:02 PM
RE: My answer to GWG
(25-10-2015 03:29 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(25-10-2015 02:43 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  What are you trying to help me with again? Oh yeah, Moses wasn't real in any way or at any time. And you know this because of your admirable collection of books. Most all, indeed all have a biased, subjective view, one way or another. Some most likely based on literal interpretations of things written long ago in a literally more poetic time.

Anyway, yeah, what about Moses now?

Reading comprehension not very high today pops?

First book of the two I recommended for you was written by Lawrence Boadt.

Lawrence Edward Boadt, C.S.P. (October 26, 1942 – July 24, 2010), was an American Paulist priest and Biblical scholar, who advocated on behalf of improved communication and understanding between Christians and Jews.

Boadt was born in Los Angeles, California, on October 26, 1942. After high school, he entered the novitiate of the Paulist Fathers in Vineland, New Jersey, where he made his initial promises as a member of the congregation on September 8, 1962.

He then earned bachelor's and master's degrees from St. Paul's College in Washington, D.C., the house of formation for the Paulist Fathers. He received ordination as a priest in 1969 and then attended The Catholic University of America, where he was awarded a master's degree and a Licentiate in Theology. At the Pontifical Biblical Institute in Rome, Boadt was granted a licentiate in Sacred Scripture and a Doctorate in Biblical Studies and Near Eastern languages. He taught at Fordham University, St. John's University and at the Washington Theological Union.

Boadt was selected to serve as the scripture editor of the Paulist Press, a publishing house established by the Paulist Fathers in 1881. His 1984 book Reading the Old Testament: An Introduction was intended to explain the Old Testament to Christians. He deeply believed in the principle that Christians could best understand their faith by studying Judaism and suggested that Christians "could gain some feeling for the Old Testament by attending a Friday night Sabbath service at a local temple or synagogue". Other books he authored include the 1980 work Ezekiel's Oracles Against Egypt: A Literary and Philological Study of Ezekiel 29-32, the 1986 book Introduction to Wisdom Literature, Proverbs and the 1999 text Why I Am a Priest: Thirty Success Stories. He was named President of the Paulist Press in 1998, holding that position until shortly before his death and overseeing the publishing of an average of 80 books annually.

yeah.......
That's cool. Probably an interesting read. Yah lost me when you said Catholic though. His education was based in human flaw and intentional misdirection if it was, or is based in traditional Catholicism. I wasn't talking about any particular books. More of the sum. Admittedly only skimmed descriptions as they didn't look to be scriptures. I attest that any outside interpretation or offshoots of base scriptures allows for more discrepancies and misdirection.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: