My biggest question about atheism
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27-01-2014, 07:44 PM
RE: My biggest question about atheism
(26-01-2014 04:00 PM)Free Wrote:  
(26-01-2014 03:46 PM)Chas Wrote:  We don't actually know that the infinite exists, we only know that the concept exists.

The universe may or may not be infinite in some or all dimensions, but we don't know.
And we don't know whether there are any realized infinities.

But if the universe is infinite and eternal, then the truth is we would never know that it is. It would be impossible to verify it. Hence, the same would be true in respect to the infinite and eternal.

It may be possible to have a rational apriori knowledge even if not empirically testable based on creation ex-nihilo being irrational or just adding mystery on mystery (and use Occam's razor as heuristic tool to simplify).

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


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27-01-2014, 07:55 PM
RE: My biggest question about atheism
Quote:'RobbyPants' wrote:
No, if you make the First Cause argument without God as a premise, then the only conclusion you can come to is "an agent capable of causing the start of the universe".

Saying "an agent capable of causing the start of the universe" just complicates things & does not answer the question - it also makes no sense.
If "time" is created then the agent presupposes time because causation presupposes time as does some "mind of an agent" (minds are time dependent with attributes of potential, deciding, desiring, wanting, doing etc)

Therefore "an agent capable of causing the start of the universe" could not start time (its a contradiction)
If time then has no beginning then neither does space as they are related space-time.
Again, as mentioned above none of this contradicts modern cosmology because the concept of the big bang itself does not go to T=0 "singularity" but to plank time (or very close to this - we don't really understand the first minute).
It may well be that "the singularity" does not exist and plank time is just a phase transition to out current visible universe.

...inference to God is just a god of the gaps and further complicates the matter as per previous post.

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


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27-01-2014, 08:11 PM
RE: My biggest question about atheism
Quote:'lookingforanswers' wrote:
The problem is that if there is nothing in this universe that can exist without a cause, then where did everything come from?

You said it in your premise:
The problem is that if there is nothing in this universe that can exist without a cause, then where did everything come from?

*CAUSALITY* applies within the universe. If we consider the universe to be everything which exists then causality is part of existence.
It makes no sense to ask what caused causality or what caused existence or what caused the universe because words like causality OR creating presuppose time which is part of the universe/existence.

The conclusion would be existence/the universe would be eternal regardless if we can empirically verify this or know what the previous transition phases are which caused the big bang (we don't know). We would know this conceptually or apriori based on reason alone because creation Ex-Nihilo is contradictory & makes no sense.
Hence no need to presuppose a God - adding mysteries to mysteries has NO explanatory power !!! Is not science and is an unnecessary assumption - just complicates matters.

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


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