My biggest question about atheism
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 3 Votes - 4.33 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
15-01-2014, 12:42 PM
RE: My biggest question about atheism
(15-01-2014 10:06 AM)lookingforanswers Wrote:  [i]First, just a couple of disclaimers, I am not here to bash anyone's beliefs.
Its fine with me because i don't have one Tongue
Quote:I can understand a lot of aspects of atheism.
Atheism is not that deep.. all you have to do is not believe in any popular religions around you.
Quote:Where did the big bang come from? What came before the big bang? etc.
Well this is the old question of "Where did everything come from".. so far we don't really know much but we do have many theories on that but they're not really conclusive.
Quote:The problem is that if there is nothing in this universe that can exist without a cause, then where did everything come from?
Hmm... Well according to basic physics law energy is neither created nor destroyed it just gets transferred.. so pure energy always has existed even before the big bang.
Quote:seems to require something that does not require a cause...something that we call God.
You mean the "God did it" baloney ?
Quote:a creator that exists without being created
We have YET to prove that a creator exists in the first place let alone one without a cause Drinking Beverage
Quote:I came on here to see if the atheist community has an explanation for how reality could exist without the existence of that sort of God.
Occam's razor simply rules out the possibility of any God existing.

Dreams/Hallucinations/delusions are not evidence
Wishful thinking is not evidence
Disproved statements&Illogical conclusions are not evidence
Logical fallacies&Unsubstantiated claims are not evidence
Vague prophecies is not evidence
Data that requires a certain belief is not evidence
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-01-2014, 12:55 PM
RE: My biggest question about atheism
(15-01-2014 10:06 AM)lookingforanswers Wrote:  Hey, I'm new on the forums and I wanted to pose a question here that no atheist has ever been able to satisfactorily answer for me.

First, just a couple of disclaimers, I am not here to bash anyone's beliefs. In general, I consider myself spiritual, but disagree with many of the beliefs of organized religions. More than anything, I consider myself a rational person who tries to make sure I can justify everything I believe with evidence. I'm currently looking into atheism and in general I am just a person who is looking for answers.

Anyways, I would love to get an educated atheist perspective on this question:

Is there any evidence in science for anything (ie. an effect) that does not require a cause?

I can understand a lot of aspects of atheism. I can understand evolution, I can even follow as far as the big bang, but my question with it has always arisen at that point.

Disclaimer #2: Like I say, I know this is an atheist website, I'm not trying to provoke anyone, I'm just a genuinely curious person looking for an answer or at least a constructive discussion, so don't take this post the wrong way.

When it comes to the big bang, the atheists I have discussed this with seem to treat the big bang itself as the answer, but I've always looked at it as just another question. Where did the big bang come from? What came before the big bang? etc.

When it comes down to the bare bones of it, everything in the universe of which I am aware has a cause. Science is entirely based around this concept. The scientific method is simply a method for finding facts through repeatable cause and effect experiments. There doesn't seem to be anything in it that would explain the start of the cause and effect chain that resulted in our existence.

The problem is that if there is nothing in this universe that can exist without a cause, then where did everything come from?

To me, the existence of anything at all (the big bang, humanity, the universe, or anything else) seems to require something that does not require a cause...something that we call God. Now, don't get bogged down on what this means, I use the term in the broadest philosophical sense ie. just a creator that exists without being created (eg. not necessarily a God who gives a crap about what happens on earth or how humans live their lives).

But, of course, I came on here to see if the atheist community has an explanation for how reality could exist without the existence of that sort of God. Essentially, I am looking for an explanation of how the cause and effect chain starts in the absence of such a God.



Hi LookingFor:

Might I suggest that since you have been raised with and live with religion that credits God as the basis of all things - to leave the question of "what came BEFORE the Big Bang?" with the answer of "we don't know" is decidedly dis-satisfactory for you? I submit that when you have *God* as the underlying reason for all things that is the answer you most readily reach for. It's a faith And a habit.
And I submit that because it is faith and habit for you to always default to the "must be God" reaction that the answer you'll get here most often of "We don't know if anything came before the big bang. We cannot know that. Yet." isn't going to sit well.
You come here with a decent question that many here also have. Questions - always ok. Answers tend to be more difficult to come by.

meanwhile - welcome to this little corner of the interwebs. May your interactions here only bring you Many Many more unanswerable questions!Cool

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes WitchSabrina's post
15-01-2014, 12:58 PM
RE: My biggest question about atheism
Carl Sagan puts it right..


Dreams/Hallucinations/delusions are not evidence
Wishful thinking is not evidence
Disproved statements&Illogical conclusions are not evidence
Logical fallacies&Unsubstantiated claims are not evidence
Vague prophecies is not evidence
Data that requires a certain belief is not evidence
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes IndianAtheist's post
15-01-2014, 01:02 PM
RE: My biggest question about atheism
Knowing how something happened is just one part of it. Understanding it in context where all the threads weave together is quite another esp due to the complexity. If you want a digestible laymans approach to the context I would suggest Bill Brysons "A short History of Nearly Everything".
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Pippen's post
15-01-2014, 01:39 PM
RE: My biggest question about atheism
(15-01-2014 11:44 AM)Dom Wrote:  If my lunch gets stolen out of the company fridge, and I can't find who dunnit, that doesn't mean that of course it was god.

Unless it was a ham sammich - Jesus likes him a ham sammich. Yes

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Chas's post
15-01-2014, 01:54 PM
RE: My biggest question about atheism
(15-01-2014 01:39 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(15-01-2014 11:44 AM)Dom Wrote:  If my lunch gets stolen out of the company fridge, and I can't find who dunnit, that doesn't mean that of course it was god.

Unless it was a ham sammich - Jesus likes him a ham sammich. Yes

Citation needed Drinking Beverage
Hahaha

A man blames his bad childhood on leprechauns. He claims they don't exist, but yet still says without a doubt that they stole all his money and then killed his parents. That's why he became Leprechaun-Man

Im_Ryan forum member
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Monster_Riffs's post
15-01-2014, 02:01 PM
RE: My biggest question about atheism
(15-01-2014 01:39 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(15-01-2014 11:44 AM)Dom Wrote:  If my lunch gets stolen out of the company fridge, and I can't find who dunnit, that doesn't mean that of course it was god.

Unless it was a ham sammich - Jesus likes him a ham sammich. Yes


Blink
but kosher - right?

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes WitchSabrina's post
15-01-2014, 02:13 PM (This post was last modified: 15-01-2014 02:28 PM by Reltzik.)
RE: My biggest question about atheism
(15-01-2014 10:06 AM)lookingforanswers Wrote:  Hey, I'm new on the forums and I wanted to pose a question here that no atheist has ever been able to satisfactorily answer for me.

First, just a couple of disclaimers, I am not here to bash anyone's beliefs. In general, I consider myself spiritual, but disagree with many of the beliefs of organized religions. More than anything, I consider myself a rational person who tries to make sure I can justify everything I believe with evidence. I'm currently looking into atheism and in general I am just a person who is looking for answers.

My first question is, how do you define spiritual? When you use it, I mean. Every time I manage to pin someone down on what they mean when they use the word spiritual, it seems their definition is different. I'm not looking for some officially correct concept of the word, just what you mean by it. You're trying to communicate a concept about yourself when you use the word... could you expand on that, please?

(15-01-2014 10:06 AM)lookingforanswers Wrote:  Anyways, I would love to get an educated atheist perspective on this question:

Is there any evidence in science for anything (ie. an effect) that does not require a cause?

I can understand a lot of aspects of atheism. I can understand evolution, I can even follow as far as the big bang, but my question with it has always arisen at that point.

Disclaimer #2: Like I say, I know this is an atheist website, I'm not trying to provoke anyone, I'm just a genuinely curious person looking for an answer or at least a constructive discussion, so don't take this post the wrong way.

When it comes to the big bang, the atheists I have discussed this with seem to treat the big bang itself as the answer, but I've always looked at it as just another question. Where did the big bang come from? What came before the big bang? etc.

When it comes down to the bare bones of it, everything in the universe of which I am aware has a cause. Science is entirely based around this concept. The scientific method is simply a method for finding facts through repeatable cause and effect experiments. There doesn't seem to be anything in it that would explain the start of the cause and effect chain that resulted in our existence.

The problem is that if there is nothing in this universe that can exist without a cause, then where did everything come from?

To me, the existence of anything at all (the big bang, humanity, the universe, or anything else) seems to require something that does not require a cause...something that we call God. Now, don't get bogged down on what this means, I use the term in the broadest philosophical sense ie. just a creator that exists without being created (eg. not necessarily a God who gives a crap about what happens on earth or how humans live their lives).

But, of course, I came on here to see if the atheist community has an explanation for how reality could exist without the existence of that sort of God. Essentially, I am looking for an explanation of how the cause and effect chain starts in the absence of such a God.


Look into Lawrence Krauss's most recent research about the sum total energy of the universe being zero.

Also, it's safe to say that unless there's an eternal reality, SOMETHING had to be uncaused. (Though I suppose if we regard time as an open interval excluding the originating point...)

Ask yourself whether the PRESENCE of a god actually explains the start of a chain of cause and effect. If God caused the Big Bang, what caused God? If God doesn't need a cause, why not? Why doesn't this reason that God not need a cause also apply to the Big Bang not needing a cause?

(Also, for the record, what's your definition of atheism? There's half a dozen or so different definitions floating around out there, and what one person means when they use the word isn't the same as what other people mean.)

EDIT: Aaaaaand everyone else already contributed everything of value I had to contribute. YOU GUYS SUCK BECAUSE OF HOW MUCH YOU GUYS ROCK!

EDIT 2: Here's a presentation by Lawrence Krauss where he explains the basic concept of a universe from nothing.



Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-01-2014, 02:29 PM
RE: My biggest question about atheism
@ lookingforanswers - you're not the only one who's a newbie at some of the responses. I like Laurence Krauss in interviews, but never read any works of his.

I'm not unedjucamated - I just haven't gotten to many of the nuggets 'round here due to life happening. Big Grin

One step at a time. I hope you find some useful nuggets with what's been said so far. Thumbsup

[Image: 3d366d5c-72a0-4228-b835-f404c2970188_zps...1381867723]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-01-2014, 02:32 PM
RE: My biggest question about atheism
Does it really make a difference? We're here and there is soooooooooo much more to worry about than where we all came from.Sadcryface

Please remember the Native American Indians Heart
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like justauntb's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: