My case against the existence of a soul
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29-07-2015, 08:23 AM
RE: My case against the existence of a soul
(29-07-2015 08:17 AM)Alla Wrote:  
(29-07-2015 07:36 AM)Chas Wrote:  If you don't care about whether the Bible is true or not, why do you reference it? Consider
I didn't say I don't care about it. I said I am not interested to convince somebody that the Bible is right.
It is not my business or call to convince people to believe something

And therin lay the crux of the biscuit. Because there's no evidence to support the legitimacy of the bible, it has to be taken on faith. By the way, since I won't be using my mansion in heaven anymore, I will let you have it for cheap . . .

(22-08-2015 07:30 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  It is by will alone I set my brows in motion it is by the conditioner of avocado that the brows acquire volume the skin acquires spots the spots become a warning. It is by will alone I set my brows in motion.
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29-07-2015, 08:42 AM
RE: My case against the existence of a soul
(29-07-2015 04:05 AM)Octapulse Wrote:  
(28-07-2015 10:58 PM)Alla Wrote:  this strange version is King James Bible
I Cor 15:
35 ...how are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
40 there are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of celestial is one, and the glory of terrestrial is another.
41 there is one glory of the sun, and another of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory
42 so also is the resurrection of the dead.

All those who enter Celestial Kingdom will have physical bodies with glory of sun. Gods have this kind of bodies. All the rest will have physical bodies either with glory of moon or glory of stars(Telestial glory) the lowest glory.
So, all people will resurrect with physical bodies only with different glory.
Spirits do not feel physical pain, they have no physical bodies. But they can feel emotional pain.

I think you are botching the interpretation here (also easily done by many xians), but here Paul is making a comparative analogy. He is saying that since the sun, moon and stars (which science proved are also suns) are all celestial bodies, but different from each other and different from human (terrestrial) bodies, that our new glorified bodies will be yet again different.
OK, now we have to argue who understand correctly these words of Paul.
It will bring us nowhere.
There are two opposites: physical death and physical resurrection.
Death: separation of spirit and flesh.
Resurrection: re-union of spirit and flesh.
But resurrected bodies of flesh and bones (and spirit in it) have different degrees of glory.
Some resurrected bodies of flesh and bones will have eternal life.
Some resurrected bodies of flesh and bones will have eternal damnation.
If resurrection is opposite of death -re-union of spirit and flesh
how can some one say: I am resurrected being but I do not have my body of flesh and bones back?
(29-07-2015 04:05 AM)Octapulse Wrote:  You still haven't shown me scripture where it attributes physical bodies to unbelievers after death.
But I explained to you what resurrection from the dead is. If death is separation of spirit and flesh, and if death is opposition of resurrection, then by using logic even little child can say that resurrection is re-union of spirit and flesh. Restored flesh.
If spirit never receives his/her flesh back he is still in hell(physical death). He or she is not resurrected.
Now my main question to you:
So, what is resurrection according to the Bible? How do you understand biblical word "resurrection"?

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29-07-2015, 08:45 AM
RE: My case against the existence of a soul
(29-07-2015 08:23 AM)Octapulse Wrote:  
(29-07-2015 08:17 AM)Alla Wrote:  I didn't say I don't care about it. I said I am not interested to convince somebody that the Bible is right.
It is not my business or call to convince people to believe something

And therin lay the crux of the biscuit. Because there's no evidence to support the legitimacy of the bible, it has to be taken on faith.
In this thread I am not interested to convince people what the Bible is and how to take it. I like to discuss here what resurrection from the dead is and why spirits can not feel physical pain.
(29-07-2015 08:23 AM)Octapulse Wrote:  By the way, since I won't be using my mansion in heaven anymore, I will let you have it for cheap . . .
You do not know this yet. If you are good person you may have your mansion in heaven.

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29-07-2015, 08:55 AM
RE: My case against the existence of a soul
(29-07-2015 08:42 AM)Alla Wrote:  
(29-07-2015 04:05 AM)Octapulse Wrote:  I think you are botching the interpretation here (also easily done by many xians), but here Paul is making a comparative analogy. He is saying that since the sun, moon and stars (which science proved are also suns) are all celestial bodies, but different from each other and different from human (terrestrial) bodies, that our new glorified bodies will be yet again different.
OK, now we have to argue who understand correctly these words of Paul.
It will bring us nowhere.
There are two opposites: physical death and physical resurrection.
Death: separation of spirit and flesh.
Resurrection: re-union of spirit and flesh.
But resurrected bodies of flesh and bones (and spirit in it) have different degrees of glory.
Some resurrected bodies of flesh and bones will have eternal life.
Some resurrected bodies of flesh and bones will have eternal damnation.
If resurrection is opposite of death -re-union of spirit and flesh
how can some one say: I am resurrected being but I do not have my body of flesh and bones back?
(29-07-2015 04:05 AM)Octapulse Wrote:  You still haven't shown me scripture where it attributes physical bodies to unbelievers after death.
But I explained to you what resurrection from the dead is. If death is separation of spirit and flesh, and if death is opposition of resurrection, then by using logic even little child can say that resurrection is re-union of spirit and flesh. Restored flesh.
If spirit never receives his/her flesh back he is still in hell(physical death). He or she is not resurrected.
Now my main question to you:
So, what is resurrection according to the Bible? How do you understand biblical word "resurrection"?

Even if the bible makes a case for the physical resurrection of unbelievers, anything the bible says has to be taken on faith as there is no evidence to support it's validity

(22-08-2015 07:30 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  It is by will alone I set my brows in motion it is by the conditioner of avocado that the brows acquire volume the skin acquires spots the spots become a warning. It is by will alone I set my brows in motion.
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29-07-2015, 08:56 AM (This post was last modified: 29-07-2015 09:06 AM by Octapulse.)
RE: My case against the existence of a soul
78th
(29-07-2015 08:45 AM)Alla Wrote:  
(29-07-2015 08:23 AM)Octapulse Wrote:  And therin lay the crux of the biscuit. Because there's no evidence to support the legitimacy of the bible, it has to be taken on faith.
In this thread I am not interested to convince people what the Bible is and how to take it. I like to discuss here what resurrection from the dead is and why spirits can not feel physical pain.
(29-07-2015 08:23 AM)Octapulse Wrote:  By the way, since I won't be using my mansion in heaven anymore, I will let you have it for cheap . . .
You do not know this yet. If you are good person you may have your mansion in heaven.

A good person? Romans 3:10: There is none who are good, no not one"

If you believe that one can get to heaven by being a good person, then you have to also believe that Jesus' death6on the cross was pointless

(22-08-2015 07:30 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  It is by will alone I set my brows in motion it is by the conditioner of avocado that the brows acquire volume the skin acquires spots the spots become a warning. It is by will alone I set my brows in motion.
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29-07-2015, 03:29 PM
RE: My case against the existence of a soul
(29-07-2015 08:55 AM)Octapulse Wrote:  Even if the bible makes a case for the physical resurrection of unbelievers, anything the bible says has to be taken on faith as there is no evidence to support it's validity
What does it have to do with your case?
If according to the Bible all people have physical bodies in resurrection then you have no case.

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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29-07-2015, 03:39 PM
RE: My case against the existence of a soul
(28-07-2015 02:57 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(28-07-2015 02:43 PM)Octapulse Wrote:  Also, if resurrection means that I reunite with my body, what happens if I'm cremated and had my ashes dumped into the ocean, gobbled up as fish food and pooped out?
Sure, let me guess. The elements from which your body is organized do not become nothing. You were not organized from nothing. Gods know how to unite those elements together again.

Quote: let me guess


These are the operable words here.

There's no evidence for any of these claims.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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29-07-2015, 03:43 PM
RE: My case against the existence of a soul
(29-07-2015 03:39 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(28-07-2015 02:57 PM)Alla Wrote:  Sure, let me guess. The elements from which your body is organized do not become nothing. You were not organized from nothing. Gods know how to unite those elements together again.

Quote: let me guess


These are the operable words here.

There's no evidence for any of these claims.

The engineering term is "WAG"....

as in

Wild assed guess....

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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29-07-2015, 03:49 PM
RE: My case against the existence of a soul
(29-07-2015 08:56 AM)Octapulse Wrote:  A good person? Romans 3:10: There is none who are good, no not one"
Paul meant that all of us deserve hell. None of us is good(righteous) to live in presence of Gods. Why? Because each one of us sin or transgression laws of God. Sin is when you break the law knowingly. Transgression is when you break one law in order to keep another. For example, Adam and Eve transgressed the law, they partook of the fruit(disobeyed) in order to keep another law - multiply and replenish.
But among sinners there are people who do a lot of good and there are people who do a lot of evil. So people who do a lot of good can be called "good people". relatively to those who do lots of evil. If compare with serial killer you are wonderful person.
(29-07-2015 08:56 AM)Octapulse Wrote:  If you believe that one can get to heaven by being a good person, then you have to also believe that Jesus' death6on the cross was pointless
I agree.
Someone who has faith in Christ and does good can enter Celestial Glory.
Someone who believes in Christ and does evil will never enter Celestial Kingdom.
Someone who does good and had no opportunity to accept Christ in this life will have this opportunity in spirit world before resurrection. That is why even according to the Bible Jesus went to preach Gospel to the dead(to spirits in prison).
You will have an opportunity to accept Christ in spirit prison.
Gospel is Good News to all children of God. Otherwise it wouldn't be good news.

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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29-07-2015, 03:54 PM
RE: My case against the existence of a soul
(29-07-2015 03:29 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(29-07-2015 08:55 AM)Octapulse Wrote:  Even if the bible makes a case for the physical resurrection of unbelievers, anything the bible says has to be taken on faith as there is no evidence to support it's validity
What does it have to do with your case?
If according to the Bible all people have physical bodies in resurrection then you have no case.

Quote: according to the Bible


And that's the problem.

According to the Vedas...blah, blah, blah is supposed to happen.

According to the Quran...blah, blah, blah, is supposed to happen.

According to the Guru Granth Sahib (Sikh faith) blah, blah blah is supposed to happen.

Whenever someone start off a religious conversation saying ...according to the ______ (full in the blank).....right from the get-go I know it's a load of ridiculous drivel written by superstitious simpletons. Pffft Tongue.

Drinking Beverage

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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