My conversion...
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06-02-2014, 08:49 PM
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 08:39 PM)Drich Wrote:  I think your broad generalizations do not speak to the specifics I put in the OP.. This is a general stock (safe) response for someone in your position to someone like me... If I hadn't mention the specifics I mentioned.

Your personal story, (however mundane and boring) is irrelevant. You are too dumb to have a scientific explanation for your Neuro-cognitive experience. It's entirely a result of your brain processes, and explained by science. It's not about you. All "experiences" are explained by brain chemistry.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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06-02-2014, 08:56 PM
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 03:46 PM)Simon Moon Wrote:  
(06-02-2014 09:18 AM)Drich Wrote:  (back story up to this point) I had lived a hard life up to that point and I was angry with God. I blamed him for everything bad that happened to me. Then I thought I had found a fatal flaw in Christianity. It had to do with Hell. I thought it was so stupid to threaten the dead with Hell. I mean how can one burn a spirit? Then I started with the taunts and challenges to God because I knew if He existed He couldn't be all that He was cracked up to be if He was sending spirits/ghosts to a lake of fire.

I use to stop breathing while I slept, and I remember one time I was a sleep, but realized I was fairly lucid, but at the same time I could not wake, Which was an issue because I had stopped breathing.. Then I realized I was no longer in my room but at my judgment. I saw a being and immediately fell flat on the ground before Him and he told me not to be afraid and to rise and follow him. I did, to a line of people.(not a long line maybe 10) I saw Jesus welcoming people by name, and again I fell flat on the ground, and my life's events started to recount in my Head. (Before He even got to me)

When He told my neighbor Welcome my good and faithful servant, I knew right then, that was a close as I would ever come to hearing those words spoken to me, then the regret/deep despair begin to sink in. All of scripture made sense, and I knew then my life did not measure up to the standards of being a member of the body. At that point there was nothing I could say. No defense for what i did.

I was helped up and for the briefest of moments I saw in His eyes a glimmer, of what of an eternity of Love with Him could have been, then I saw heart break and disappointment in Him, Then I heard "away from me you wicked servant, I never knew you.."

My heart dropped, Then I pleaded: Lord lord give me one more chance..I fell to His feet and clinched as tightly as I could. swearing allegiance and love. I just needed another chance to prove it.

then either the ground gave way or I was thrown into the pit. I just remember falling into a black nothingness, as I traveled away from the light I felt myself being consumed by this Black almost like Hot tar. It was not fire but it invoked the same response as being burned. The panic and hysteria of being consumed lit every nerve ending as if it was being burned by the hottest flame. I could see nothing but heard a great yelling and many many groans of pain from every direction, But only bearly because of my own groans, and screams. (Through all of that I had a sense that these laments were not all human.) All the while falling and being in a great state of panic and pain. Fire, panic and pain are not even strong enough words to describe the intensity of the experience.

That's why when i talk to people about Hell I say the reason the bible uses fire to describe hell it is because Being consumed by fire is the closest thing we can relate to when we are thrown into the void of Hell. Even so fire doesn't even come close. If given the choice I would rather be burned for an eternity by what we know to be fire than experience "Hell fire" ever again.

As the last glimmer of the light was fading The reality of eternity began to set in and all hope quickly faded away. I saw the next step of my journey, and that was in the face of increasing despair, the luxury of the control we have over minds, was soon to be taken from me as well...

It was then I felt a hand grab me, and I began to ascend. the being that pulled me out of the pit told me that this was Only Gates of Hell and what I experiences was only a glimmer of what was to come. He told me that the rest of "this life" was my second Chance that I had asked for, and warned me that all that I experienced awaits me, if I did not know Jesus.

When I awoke I had sweat an outline of my entire body into my mattress and through my comforter.

The experience of Hell didn't change my life. It was the glimmer of an eternity with the one I love with all of my being did. I realized that Hell is not an incentive for Heaven. Hell is simply the absents of God and all that He created. Being members of Creation We literally burn with desire to be apart of it and with God.

This is what prompts me to ask people, If the descriptions of Heaven and Hell were somehow confused in the Past, and Heaven was a fiery pit (But God lived there.) And Hell was what we know to be Paradise, but God was absent, then would you still want to goto Heaven (The Fiery pit) and burn forever with God?

Those who seek Heaven as their just reward or Choose Heaven because they fear Hell don't understand what Heaven is.

Heaven is being with God no matter what it looks like.


Yeah, you used to have a case of sleep apnea coupled with sleep paralysis. This condition caused you to have seemingly very real experience.

1000's of people have these. A few hundred years ago they thought they were being attacked by succubus or incubus. In the last few decades people believe they are being abducted by aliens.

People in other cultures have these where they experience their gods.

But here's why you are being disingenuous.

You now claim for us to find 'God' we have to use the A/S/K method, which you have outlined elsewhere, yet you didn't have to use this method. Why did you deserve to have 'God' visit you without the effort of the A/S/K method, but we don't?

Actually I did. I like you challenged Christians, debated with him, began to do whatever I could to defeat them this meant reading the bible and talking with like minded people trying to convince them of the error of their ways. that is how I came up with the whole Idea that putting spirits into fire was 'proof' that an all knowing God could not exist. Then instead of knocking I kick at the door of God by bullying Christians who were stupid enough to bring their bibles to school. and made a commitment to them to keep doing so till they stopped turning their cheeks and stopped me or if their God would have to stop me. To show me/prove to me I was wrong.

I was faithful to everything I had as little and as terriable as it was. God took my mustard seed and grew it into a belief that moved the mountains of doubt..
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06-02-2014, 08:59 PM
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 08:39 PM)Drich Wrote:  
(06-02-2014 02:38 PM)Pippen Wrote:  Opps forgot to add...

It is quite different from a normal nightmare. Much more intense and almost a visceral sensation as you described. I have never had another experience of it but even though it was a good thirty years ago I remember it distinctly. I am not and have never been in the slightest bit religious and even to me it took on the dimensions where I really felt there was a demon after my soul. But hell I was a little kid and kids think all sorts of dumb stuff.

I have no doubt that you would be more susceptible to filtering your experience through a religious context as that is what you know and it helps you make sense of it. Other cultures and religions apply their filters to explain it in their own contexts. The similarities of reported cases across different cultures races and religions are quite striking which indicates it is firmly in the realm of human neurology rather than the divine.

Either that or God gets his shits and giggles from scaring the living fuck out of you while you are sleeping.
I think your broad generalizations do not speak to the specifics I put in the OP.. This is a general stock (safe) response for someone in your position to someone like me... If I hadn't mention the specifics I mentioned.

OK. But have you even looked into any of the suggestions I and others have given you? Are you in the slightest bit interested in the possible organic cause of this? I'm not asking you to believe it, just at the very least consider that what you experienced is not God talking to you but a very common neurological sleep related condition that exhibits many of the signs that millions, if not billions, or even tens of billions have also experienced without the filter of your Christian God.

From what I can gather that until this thread you had never even heard of Sleep Paralysis. A number of other people have brought it up as an explanation and shared their experiences. Now that you do know about it you have the opportunity to research it and understand it. You don't have, to but anyone with an enquiringly mind would. 5 minutes out of your day just to have a squizz at the wikipedia site even. 5 whole minutes.

What you went through was no doubt terrifying and profoundly troubling. Your faith might seem the perfect foil and provide a nice tidy explanation but there are others if you care to find out.
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06-02-2014, 09:04 PM
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 05:53 PM)Noelani Wrote:  You actually think you went to hell?
Did you read what was written or did you stop reading the first time I wrote the word hell?
I said I had a dream.. this was underlined by me telling you I started out in bed and I woke up in bed. This identifies my experience as a dream.

Quote: And you go around telling people what hell is like?
even in the Dream I did not experience Full Hell. I pointed this out when I said the angel told me that what I experienced was just the gates of Hell.

Quote:Are you discounting that this might just be a dream and not some message from a deity? How could you prove the difference?
I asked this like a dozen times... What makes you think God doesn't use dreams to speak to us? there are several examples of God doing this very thing. (Using dreams to communicate to us)

Quote:You were not an atheist if you were tempting a god, let alone specifically the god that is talked about in the bible.
Are you an atheist? are you not challenging God the same way I challenged God by challenging those who represent Him?
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06-02-2014, 09:05 PM
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 08:25 PM)Im_Ryan Wrote:  
(06-02-2014 08:15 PM)Drich Wrote:  Then How does my deconversion differ form yours?

You mean besides that you're still a theist and haven't come to terms that you never truly deconverted?
At what point in my story did I say I was a Christian to begin with?
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06-02-2014, 09:10 PM
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 08:56 PM)Drich Wrote:  
(06-02-2014 03:46 PM)Simon Moon Wrote:  Yeah, you used to have a case of sleep apnea coupled with sleep paralysis. This condition caused you to have seemingly very real experience.

1000's of people have these. A few hundred years ago they thought they were being attacked by succubus or incubus. In the last few decades people believe they are being abducted by aliens.

People in other cultures have these where they experience their gods.

But here's why you are being disingenuous.

You now claim for us to find 'God' we have to use the A/S/K method, which you have outlined elsewhere, yet you didn't have to use this method. Why did you deserve to have 'God' visit you without the effort of the A/S/K method, but we don't?

Actually I did. I like you challenged Christians, debated with him, began to do whatever I could to defeat them this meant reading the bible and talking with like minded people trying to convince them of the error of their ways. that is how I came up with the whole Idea that putting spirits into fire was 'proof' that an all knowing God could not exist. Then instead of knocking I kick at the door of God by bullying Christians who were stupid enough to bring their bibles to school. and made a commitment to them to keep doing so till they stopped turning their cheeks and stopped me or if their God would have to stop me. To show me/prove to me I was wrong.

I was faithful to everything I had as little and as terriable as it was. God took my mustard seed and grew it into a belief that moved the mountains of doubt..

This is going to sound awfully rude, but do you think you might have a personality disorder? That is not normal behaviour. You sound very angry and you said you had a hard life.

You have provided an example of your behaviour when you hated God. What is different now? I only ask because you still sound angry as all get out.
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06-02-2014, 09:14 PM
RE: My conversion...
I wonder why the biblical god doesn't give every nonbeliever these dreams. Seems like a pretty simple solution, ya know, if he's really into saving his children's souls and all.
I guess it's because he's a sadist. What kind of mind builds a torture chamber in the first place?
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06-02-2014, 09:20 PM
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 07:41 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  I find it interesting that anyone with a "near death" or "dream experience" always seems to experience the god they already are familiar with. Ie, god is always a human. Always a man. Always a certain age range. And of a religion you are at least familiar with.
Laugh out load Maybe because that is what God is..

Quote:If you are a Christian, you see white Jesus. If you are Muslim, you see Mohammad, if you are Hindu, you see mithra.

Or it's your family members that greet you.
Then why did I see Jesus?

Quote:Why don't perfect strangers meet you- Someone you've never seen before.
did you not read the story? An angel met me. I didn't know him I though maybe He was Jesus. I saw Him and hit the floor.. there was no warm welcome. there was fear and trembling.

Quote:Why isn't god something beyond what we've imagined?
what did I imagine that you saw as so stereotypical? (aside from the angel in whom I did not know and did not give me a warm welcome)

Quote:Perhaps the answer is simply because we created him, and any dreams in which we have or experiences we have are part of stored memory or preconceived notions.
So again then why does my experience run contrary to what you have said? If I believed in a literal 'lake of fire.' Why was I thrown into a black pit of hell fire? I never understood what gnashing teeth were or why it was so bad.. I do know. There was so much I learned in my experience that I did not know or could confirm till much much later in my faith. that is why I share this story, and why I believe this was God communicating to me. Everything I experienced was well beyond me and what I knew at the time. This took what I knew and threw it completely out the window. If you read the OP carfully you will see this.

Quote:I'd be more inclined to give credence to these claims if there was at least ONE original thought in there.
If it were completely orginal this would be akin to scientology. I don't want your 'credence' if that is the price. I would much rather be faithful to what I experienced even if you 'feel' it has been done.
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06-02-2014, 09:21 PM
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 08:35 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(06-02-2014 08:15 PM)Drich Wrote:  Then How does my deconversion differ form yours?

I think that is evident.

Again, shoo fly.

how so?
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06-02-2014, 09:27 PM
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 08:59 PM)Pippen Wrote:  
(06-02-2014 08:39 PM)Drich Wrote:  I think your broad generalizations do not speak to the specifics I put in the OP.. This is a general stock (safe) response for someone in your position to someone like me... If I hadn't mention the specifics I mentioned.

OK. But have you even looked into any of the suggestions I and others have given you? Are you in the slightest bit interested in the possible organic cause of this? I'm not asking you to believe it, just at the very least consider that what you experienced is not God talking to you but a very common neurological sleep related condition that exhibits many of the signs that millions, if not billions, or even tens of billions have also experienced without the filter of your Christian God.

From what I can gather that until this thread you had never even heard of Sleep Paralysis. A number of other people have brought it up as an explanation and shared their experiences. Now that you do know about it you have the opportunity to research it and understand it. You don't have, to but anyone with an enquiringly mind would. 5 minutes out of your day just to have a squizz at the wikipedia site even. 5 whole minutes.

What you went through was no doubt terrifying and profoundly troubling. Your faith might seem the perfect foil and provide a nice tidy explanation but there are others if you care to find out.
Again so what if you can described the mechanics behind a vechical God uses to communicate with us? Does it somehow mean that the message was not from God?

I can fix cars (among other things) does my being able to describe how your car's engine works, negate your ablity to drive your car to any place you want to go? If you did not know how it works again does it negate your ablity to drive your car any where you want to go?

Then again please one of you explain why identifying this as a dream put the message beyond God's reach.
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