My conversion...
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07-02-2014, 06:44 AM
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 09:27 PM)Drich Wrote:  
(06-02-2014 08:59 PM)Pippen Wrote:  OK. But have you even looked into any of the suggestions I and others have given you? Are you in the slightest bit interested in the possible organic cause of this? I'm not asking you to believe it, just at the very least consider that what you experienced is not God talking to you but a very common neurological sleep related condition that exhibits many of the signs that millions, if not billions, or even tens of billions have also experienced without the filter of your Christian God.

From what I can gather that until this thread you had never even heard of Sleep Paralysis. A number of other people have brought it up as an explanation and shared their experiences. Now that you do know about it you have the opportunity to research it and understand it. You don't have, to but anyone with an enquiringly mind would. 5 minutes out of your day just to have a squizz at the wikipedia site even. 5 whole minutes.

What you went through was no doubt terrifying and profoundly troubling. Your faith might seem the perfect foil and provide a nice tidy explanation but there are others if you care to find out.
Again so what if you can described the mechanics behind a vechical God uses to communicate with us? Does it somehow mean that the message was not from God?

I can fix cars (among other things) does my being able to describe how your car's engine works, negate your ablity to drive your car to any place you want to go? If you did not know how it works again does it negate your ablity to drive your car any where you want to go?

Then again please one of you explain why identifying this as a dream put the message beyond God's reach.

Car mechanics is not an analogous scenario to describing the mechanics behind your dream.

You see, if you believed your car ran on pixie dust, explaining how the car runs on gas would not mean that the car no longer operates, it means that the car doesn't run on pixie dust.

A message from "god", delivered organically, doesn't mean that it *couldn't* have been from god, it means that it *might* not have been.

That's the part about it that you are ignoring. If there is a possiblity that it was a message from god, there also has to be the possibility that it's NOT from god.

Haha. Ever notice how the more science discovers, the more god disappears? If god is real, and belief in him is necessary to avoid torture, he has the power to snap his fingers (if he even has fingers) and instantly fix this entire mess belief in him created.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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07-02-2014, 08:10 AM
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 10:44 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(06-02-2014 10:33 PM)Drich Wrote:  Oh, I just thought that was what people said on this website, when they are caught in a mess they put themselves into, and don't want to be held accountable to it by having to admit anything..

If your going to press I am going to have to admit the mistake (as I am not mom either) You did not say I was a Christian. I read Christian when you wrote theist.

That said I have posted a time line of my beliefs and my understandings at least 3 or 4 times now. Using that time line tell me how my turning from God in highschool differs from every other deconversion story in the sticky thread at the top of this subforum.

If you can't know this is the definition of a no true Scotsman fallacy..

The fuck you say!?

Are you really that thick headed? You never DEconverted. You continued to believe that's why you assumed when you had your "dream" (read hallucination), it was god who tickled your taint!

An atheist who had deconverted would not have assumed such an asinine dream was a message from god! He/she would have seen a fucking doctor.

Now for the LAST TIME shoo fly!

Sorey mom, but unless you can do better with your explaination your default arguement can be dismissed as a No true atheist/scotsmen fallacy.
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07-02-2014, 08:14 AM
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 10:51 PM)Im_Ryan Wrote:  
(06-02-2014 10:33 PM)Drich Wrote:  Oh, I just thought that was what people said on this website, when they are caught in a mess they put themselves into, and don't want to be held accountable to it by having to admit anything..

If your going to press I am going to have to admit the mistake (as I am not mom either) You did not say I was a Christian. I read Christian when you wrote theist.

That said I have posted a time line of my beliefs and my understandings at least 3 or 4 times now. Using that time line tell me how my turning from God in highschool differs from every other deconversion story in the sticky thread at the top of this subforum.

If you can't know this is the definition of a no true Scotsman fallacy..

Wrong. The definition of atheism is "lack of belief", your whole dream shows otherwise (and how you went about it). Please stop trying to use that fallacy, it hasn't worked before and still doesn't work.
again I point back to my time line. It starts when I was 14. it ends when I was 20. durning that period according to what I had written explain why I was not an Atheist. Now keep in mind the 'dream' I had did not happen till i was 20.

You and your mommie keep pointing to the dream. there is a 6 year period you are intentionally over looking. Address it or I will dismiss your arguement as a no true scotsman fallacy as well.
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07-02-2014, 08:16 AM
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 11:04 PM)Im_Ryan Wrote:  
(06-02-2014 10:58 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Exactly, if I had a dream like that, I'd certainly go see a doctor before I assumed any type of divine message. I'd want to rule out a serious health problem.

Science for the win!

Yeah, science bitches!

BTW, Drich:
Just for clarification, you may have been going through the "deconversion" process, but at the time mentioned you were not an atheist. You would be considered an agnostic at best. If you're still talking to God and using him as an excuse, that is not atheism.

I'm honestly trying to get you to understand the difference. Ask questions if you need to.

Here your whole arguement is based on a straw man. You have intentionally changed my timeline to fit your new hypothsis. Again please explain how my deconversion differs from the stories posted in the sticky section of this website.
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07-02-2014, 08:18 AM
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 11:50 PM)Pippen Wrote:  
(06-02-2014 09:44 PM)Drich Wrote:  dude I was 19/20ish... What kid who has lived a hard life is not angry at that age?

As far as who I am now.. My wife described me (I just asked her) as Passionate, a Pun-ie/dry sense of humor, She also say I am very objective/disconnected from personal feeling when a decision has to be made.

Does that make me angry person now? Honestly I do not care. Tongue

Ok. But what is different now? You have every right to be fucked off at the world if you feel it has shat on you. But at some stage you will have to seek or grant forgiveness to actual people in your life rather than have it handed to you by an arbitrary and imaginary deity.

You say you don't care. I would care for all it was worth to get out of the hurt you are in. I don't know you or your life. I could never even hope to.
meh, ill look into it. just did I'm good thanks but we dont need any self pitty. That's an atheist thing.
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07-02-2014, 08:19 AM
RE: My conversion...
(07-02-2014 04:56 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  I knew the moment I mentioned Occam's razor that it would end up in a debate about what it actually is.

Here allow me to prove you wrong...
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07-02-2014, 08:30 AM
RE: My conversion...
Typically, when any method is cited to lend support to one's argument, the other person will attack the method, and not the argument. This does nothing to validate their point of view in any sense, because the original argument is not being discredited. Even if there was another legitimate way to interrupt Occam's razor (there isn't), that does not make your argument more valid.
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07-02-2014, 08:40 AM
RE: My conversion...
(07-02-2014 06:23 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  I read the OP. You saw white Jesus (who wasn't white btw) because that's what you were most familiar with. Maybe you weren't a Christian but you had gone to a Christian church and grew up around Christians.
Ahh, no. I'm 1/2 korean i grew up in a buddhist household with overtones of strong hippy spiritualism.

Oh, and Jesus wasn't white, He was wereing a white robe but so do most of the brown people of the middle east.

Quote:The part you don't seem to be accepting is that you have seen these people waiting in line before.
Ahh, no again we were shoulder to shoulder. in a line or lined up.

Quote:Perhaps in a Starbucks, or whatever but it was a snapshot your mind took without you even realizing it. Or you might have seen these people as actors or extras on TV.
so? eventually everyone will be in that or a similar line.

Quote:Nothing you dreamed was original.
Again why can't God use dreams to communicate to us? He did so in the bible. I have asked this question more than 12 times and none of you cares to even approach it, you just keep repeating yourselves like your failed dead arguement will somehow come back to life and help you save face. Understand, it wont. Not unless you can come up with a biblical reason to destroy the biblical president I have droped at your feet.

Quote:Why was hell hot?
Did you even Read the OP? HELL WAS NOT HOT!
Hell fire does not describe Heat. Hell fire Describes the nothingness of the pit and the panic one endures when being consumed by the pit/nothingness. One's whole existance screams out in panic, fear and sheer desperation, as it would if one was on fire, but 1000xs more.

Quote:Because you've been always told through the mythology that hell involves fire and heat.
That is why I thought it stupid to send a spirit there. because again how can one burn a ghost?
So how did the dream differ?
We were not Ghosts We were in bodily form. I thought hell was a literal lake of red burning fire as depicted in religious art work, It was not. it's a black EMPTY pit. I thought the Devil Ran Hell, He doesn't he and his people are being consumed there as well. I thought we burned forever, I did not even make it though the gates and my sanity was about to leave me, meaning what made me, Me was going to be destroyed, and all that would be left is this primal husk of fear gnashing of teeth and panic. who know how long he would have lasted.. Nothing I knew of Hell was correct. The more I study it the more I found not only the Christian scripture supported it, but the Jewish descriptions as well.

Quote:Why is hell always down, below, or subterranean?
It wasn't. It was a journey through the void or lack of creation.

Quote:This evolved from Egyptian mythology of Set being the king of the underworld. As I said, the pit of tar is again, an abyss for which you get sucked DOWN. Not original at all.
So.. Now I'm egyptian or an egyptian stood next to me in starbucks and implanted his vision of Hell?

Quote:I would believe you if the god you imagined was nothing you've ever known before.
see the OP.

Quote:See a color that doesn't exist,
See the OP more over Jesus' eyes.

Quote:or a place not from Hollywood or a conglomeration of places you've already been. For instance, every single "place" you described always seems to have gravity.
Your not even reading anything are you, your just argueing from a script of sorts..

Quote:What you also don't seem to be getting is that an atheist doesn't believe in god. We don't turn our back on god anymore than we turn our back on Zeus or the boogie man. In order to turn your back on something, you have to believe it exists, which we don't.
Laugh out load maybe you should tell your peers that.
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07-02-2014, 08:41 AM
RE: My conversion...
(07-02-2014 08:10 AM)Drich Wrote:  
(06-02-2014 10:44 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  The fuck you say!?

Are you really that thick headed? You never DEconverted. You continued to believe that's why you assumed when you had your "dream" (read hallucination), it was god who tickled your taint!

An atheist who had deconverted would not have assumed such an asinine dream was a message from god! He/she would have seen a fucking doctor.

Now for the LAST TIME shoo fly!

Sorey mom, but unless you can do better with your explaination your default arguement can be dismissed as a No true atheist/scotsmen fallacy.

You don't understand the No True Scot fallacy. Or a straw man fallacy. No surprise here, as you don't understand fallacies in general, or you wouldn't wallow in them.s

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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07-02-2014, 08:41 AM
RE: My conversion...
(07-02-2014 06:44 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Haha. Ever notice how the more science discovers, the more god disappears? If god is real, and belief in him is necessary to avoid torture, he has the power to snap his fingers (if he even has fingers) and instantly fix this entire mess belief in him created.

Yeah, the more and more this happens we get closer to one of two things:

1) A god that is useless to the point that he might as well not even exist.

2) A got that is real and can totally send you to hell, and who becomes increasingly likely to do so as science marches on. Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn! He comes!
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