My conversion...
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07-02-2014, 09:43 AM
RE: My conversion...
(07-02-2014 08:40 AM)Drich Wrote:  
(07-02-2014 06:23 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  I read the OP. You saw white Jesus (who wasn't white btw) because that's what you were most familiar with. Maybe you weren't a Christian but you had gone to a Christian church and grew up around Christians.
Ahh, no. I'm 1/2 korean i grew up in a buddhist household with overtones of strong hippy spiritualism.

Oh, and Jesus wasn't white, He was wereing a white robe but so do most of the brown people of the middle east.

Quote:The part you don't seem to be accepting is that you have seen these people waiting in line before.
Ahh, no again we were shoulder to shoulder. in a line or lined up.

Quote:Perhaps in a Starbucks, or whatever but it was a snapshot your mind took without you even realizing it. Or you might have seen these people as actors or extras on TV.
so? eventually everyone will be in that or a similar line.

Quote:Nothing you dreamed was original.
Again why can't God use dreams to communicate to us? He did so in the bible. I have asked this question more than 12 times and none of you cares to even approach it, you just keep repeating yourselves like your failed dead arguement will somehow come back to life and help you save face. Understand, it wont. Not unless you can come up with a biblical reason to destroy the biblical president I have droped at your feet.

Quote:Why was hell hot?
Did you even Read the OP? HELL WAS NOT HOT!
Hell fire does not describe Heat. Hell fire Describes the nothingness of the pit and the panic one endures when being consumed by the pit/nothingness. One's whole existance screams out in panic, fear and sheer desperation, as it would if one was on fire, but 1000xs more.

Quote:Because you've been always told through the mythology that hell involves fire and heat.
That is why I thought it stupid to send a spirit there. because again how can one burn a ghost?
So how did the dream differ?
We were not Ghosts We were in bodily form. I thought hell was a literal lake of red burning fire as depicted in religious art work, It was not. it's a black EMPTY pit. I thought the Devil Ran Hell, He doesn't he and his people are being consumed there as well. I thought we burned forever, I did not even make it though the gates and my sanity was about to leave me, meaning what made me, Me was going to be destroyed, and all that would be left is this primal husk of fear gnashing of teeth and panic. who know how long he would have lasted.. Nothing I knew of Hell was correct. The more I study it the more I found not only the Christian scripture supported it, but the Jewish descriptions as well.

Quote:Why is hell always down, below, or subterranean?
It wasn't. It was a journey through the void or lack of creation.

Quote:This evolved from Egyptian mythology of Set being the king of the underworld. As I said, the pit of tar is again, an abyss for which you get sucked DOWN. Not original at all.
So.. Now I'm egyptian or an egyptian stood next to me in starbucks and implanted his vision of Hell?

Quote:I would believe you if the god you imagined was nothing you've ever known before.
see the OP.

Quote:See a color that doesn't exist,
See the OP more over Jesus' eyes.

Quote:or a place not from Hollywood or a conglomeration of places you've already been. For instance, every single "place" you described always seems to have gravity.
Your not even reading anything are you, your just argueing from a script of sorts..

Quote:What you also don't seem to be getting is that an atheist doesn't believe in god. We don't turn our back on god anymore than we turn our back on Zeus or the boogie man. In order to turn your back on something, you have to believe it exists, which we don't.
Laugh out load maybe you should tell your peers that.

Can you read? I never said you were Egyptian. I said that the myth of hell being a place "below" is from their mythology.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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07-02-2014, 09:49 AM
RE: My conversion...
(07-02-2014 01:48 AM)Reltzik Wrote:  You seem to have misunderstood my question. I'm not expressing disbelief that the conventional notion of God, if He existed, COULD communicate with dreams. I'm expressing confusion about how you reached the conclusion that this dream of yours had its origin with a divine being. I'm not asking, "could it have gone down like that," I'm asking, "Why do you think that it DID go down like that?" Even if we were to assume that something like the conventional notion of God were to exist and communicated to some people through some dreams, how would you identify this PARTICULAR dream as coming from God, rather than just being the sort of dream you might naturally dream up? Do you think the human mind is incapable of naturally constructing that sort of thing in a dream? Do you think all dreams God-sent, or just special ones? Special how? How did you reach that conclusion? Did you ever ask yourself, "was this just a dream or was it something more?" How did you find your answer, and was your method for finding your answer a good method, or one that is prone to error? How did you come to authenticate this as a God-sent dream rather than just a dream?
As with ANY personal revelation the method of detection is through scripture. Does EVERYTHING jive with what the bible says or not? If Yes then the message however it was received is from God, then if not then it needs to be discarded.

Quote:... also, you said that the reason Christians have for sticking around in this life is to spread the message to non-Christians. But if the message can get spread by dreams, wouldn't that mean that base is covered?
Look at the bible. Dream communication happens. It just does not happen alot to great effect in everyone. Many dreams have to be interperted.

Quote:.... okay, when you wrote A/S/K like that, before, I just assumed it was some silly formatting thing for emphasis. Is that some sort of acronym or acrostic or something? Because if you've ever explained it here, I missed the post. Is that the method you used?
A/S/K Ask, Seek, Knock. we are told to A/S/K for the Holy Spirit in Luke 11
5 And He said to them, “Which of you shall have a friend, and go to him at midnight and say to him, ‘Friend, lend me three loaves; 6 for a friend of mine has come to me on his journey, and I have nothing to set before him’; 7 and he will answer from within and say, ‘Do not trouble me; the door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed; I cannot rise and give to you’? 8 I say to you, though he will not rise and give to him because he is his friend, yet because of his persistence he will rise and give him as many as he needs. 9 “So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 10 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. 11 If a son asks for bread from any father among you, will he give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent instead of a fish? 12 Or if he asks for an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!”The best way is to Ask in prayer, To seek in the bible, church and in discussions like this, to knock is to repeat this process till you get what you are looking for. (The Holy Spirit.)

If you want proof of God then The Holy Spirit is the Only Proof you will Ever need. What better proof of God is there than God? The Holy Spirit will Give you exactly what you NEED to establish and maintain a relationship with God IF you are faithful to what He has given you.

Quote:Which, of course, is evading the question. The offer being related by a book or priest or dream or whatever is meaningless if the being purported by that medium to be making the offer doesn't actually exist.

... also, how do you know what you would have found?
How or what The H/S has done to help me establish and maintain my faith will be seperate threads. But He has done alot.
I have posted alot on Af.org if you want to know now.

Quote:.... wait, Han Solo was a Muslim?
Dan Solo might have been.


(06-02-2014 08:33 PM)Drich Wrote:  yes, no question.

Quote:How?
what are you an indian? How what?

Quote:I probably could, too. Yet you also relate that it wasn't fear of hell (or, by extension in this hypothetical, wormhood) that moved you. It was the caring of an enlightened being seeking to help you avoid this fate.
Actually the being you speak of condemned me to this fate.
What swayed me was the taste he offered of what eternal life would have been.

Quote:Yet that's still a faulty analysis. You're presenting it as "if I could choose one or the other, so I choose to live with the Biblical God." (WHY you would do that is a mystery, but whatever.) But I'm presenting you with a scenario where, with you strongly doubting or disbelieving the notion of the Christian god, you receive the same type of dream-evidence... only it's not for the Christian god, it's for the Greek gods. What would have happened then? Would the revelation from Hades would have somehow inspired you from that state to Christianity, and not Hellenism? Would you have faced the worst the Greek gods could muster rather than live without a Christian god that you didn't believe existed? Since you didn't believe he existed, wouldn't you be living without that Christian god regardless? Do I have that chronology right? Your life sucked, so you got angry at the Christian God, and then by the time for your dream, you were taunting and challenging the Christian god because you thought the whole concept made no sense whatsoever and you'd stopped believing? If you had that dream-evidence of a different religion, would you have turned away from it in favor of the god you were taunting and daring because you thought the notion didn't make any sense?
No. because again the other religions do not offer what Christianity does. It is what God offers that soothed or quenched my anger. Regaurdless of what they offered or even what i thought God offered I wanted to spit in His eye and as a spirit float above the flames of hell because to me none of it mattered because I knew He could not exist and be so foolish as to create a hell that did not effect 'ghosts.'

Again the catlyst was the bad stuff that happened to me.. no matter who I thaught was God I wanted to spit in his eye, and taunt him from Hell. Because i knew it was all aload of crap. this outline can be put on any deity and my feelings would have been the same. What turned me is something that is offered by the God of the bible and with no one else. so if any of the other gods offered me what their religions says they will offer I would have spit in their eye and embraced hell or whatever version of it they have.
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07-02-2014, 09:50 AM
RE: My conversion...
(07-02-2014 08:43 AM)Drich Wrote:  see the above response. you guys are the same. None of your assessments of what I left in the OP are reflected in your summeries. You have changed the OP to some strawman version of it and your attacking what you have practiced in the past.

What does this even mean? I'm not attacking anything. I'm trying to explain to you how your dreams are created. That the people whom you've "never seen before" actually ARE people you've seen before. You just don't remember that you saw them. On tv...in reality..whatever.

Take it down a notch, drama queen. I'm not attacking you. I'm merely pointing out that: 1) you didn't deconvert (atheists don't turn their back on god unicorns because we don't think they exist; and 2) your subconscious is communicating a fear to you. kinda like when you dream that your spouse has cheated on you...its not that they actually cheated, but about your FEAR that they will betray you. Fear of being betrayed.

Read a psychology book. Yeesh.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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07-02-2014, 09:53 AM
RE: My conversion...
(07-02-2014 09:50 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(07-02-2014 08:43 AM)Drich Wrote:  see the above response. you guys are the same. None of your assessments of what I left in the OP are reflected in your summeries. You have changed the OP to some strawman version of it and your attacking what you have practiced in the past.

What does this even mean? I'm not attacking anything. I'm trying to explain to you how your dreams are created. That the people whom you've "never seen before" actually ARE people you've seen before. You just don't remember that you saw them. On tv...in reality..whatever.

Take it down a notch, drama queen. I'm not attacking you. I'm merely pointing out that: 1) you didn't deconvert (atheists don't turn their back on god unicorns because we don't think they exist; and 2) your subconscious is communicating a fear to you. kinda like when you dream that your spouse has cheated on you...its not that they actually cheated, but about your FEAR that they will betray you. Fear of being betrayed.

Read a psychology book. Yeesh.



Cath - it is so hard to question theists because they knee-jerk react to think we are attacking them. Often regardless of how rational or soft the approach.
Hug

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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07-02-2014, 09:54 AM
RE: My conversion...
Last night I had a dream that I was late for work. I hurried and got onto the subway, only to realize that I wasn't wearing any pants.

Then, as I ran to find the closest mall to get some pants, the guard told me I only had 10 seconds to eject before the mall closed.

Suddenly, I was in a house that was not my house but it was my house with a my dog that was pooping on a very expensive carpet and I was upset that I would now have to pay for this carpet and when I reached into my pocket for the money, turns out I had still not put any pants on.


Must be god telling me to stop going to bed naked.

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07-02-2014, 09:57 AM
RE: My conversion...
(07-02-2014 09:49 AM)Drich Wrote:  no matter who I thaught was God I wanted to spit in his eye, and taunt him from Hell. Because i knew it was all aload of crap. this outline can be put on any deity and my feelings would have been the same.

How can you want to spit in the eye of a deity and taunt them from Hell if you do not believe in that deity or Hell?
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07-02-2014, 09:59 AM
RE: My conversion...
(07-02-2014 09:54 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Last night I had a dream that I was late for work. I hurried and got onto the subway, only to realize that I wasn't wearing any pants.

Then, as I ran to find the closest mall to get some pants, the guard told me I only had 10 seconds to eject before the mall closed.

Suddenly, I was in a house that was not my house but it was my house with a my dog that was pooping on a very expensive carpet and I was upset that I would now have to pay for this carpet and when I reached into my pocket for the money, turns out I had still not put any pants on.


Must be god telling me to stop going to bed naked.


We could maybe use a thread just for sharing weird dreams. LOL

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07-02-2014, 10:03 AM
RE: My conversion...
Drich - I don't have to be a psychologist to figure out that you had fears surrounding your doubts regarding god. Maybe not religion in particular, but god in general.

You say you weren't a "christian" and didn't grow up around it, then what was all that yammering about going to church when you were little?

So due to these fears that come with "what if I'm wrong?!?!", your fear was realized in your dream. Its just your subconscious talking to you. Telling you that you are afraid of being wrong about disbelief in god.

We all had these fears, and they are completely understandable and even relatable. And we all found our way out of that fear through self soothing. Some of us shrug and say, "fuck it. If god would send me to hell despite being a good person simply because I didn't believe, he is a dickhead and I don't want to be around him for eternity." Some people think, "atheist have made hell a better place by now." the list goes on and on.

You chose to self soothe by reaffirming a belief in god, regardless of your doubts. You shoved it way way down and buried it. Tell me though...you really think god - if he exists as described - wouldn't know the difference ? What kind of chump do you take him for?!

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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07-02-2014, 10:04 AM
RE: My conversion...
Guys, you're wasting your time engaging him in any serious discussion. He knows full well what you mean in every point you put to him, he makes a conscious choice to misinterpret or not 'understand' you. It's a classic deflection tactic of the inteectually barren. He will slip and slide out of every legitimate point made to him whilst accusing others of the fallacies he so blatantly exploits. My personal favourite thus far, in one thread he likens the atheist position to flat earthers and his own to progressive intellect. Meanwhile he jumps on a 16 year old kids thread, who has concerns about meeting with a pastor and starts proselytising, whilst in other threads claims that's not why he's here.

Drich, all you have brought to this forum is half baked personal theology woo woo, wrapped up in the usual disingenuous snake oil salesman fashion. You're so desperate to convert people for the sake of your own ego and to validate your anecdotal bullshit it's pathetic. If you want to go through life a deranged muppet, crack on, no problem, if you want to believe your asphyxiated dream bullshit, good for you, in fact, I have some wind chimes you can buy, the bells are hung from the real pubes of Jesus £1000 and they're yours. You need to produce evidence for your complete prattle! Until you do, in the words of Roger Waters 'leave them kids alone'! You are by far one of the most insidious, sly and repellent theists I've seen on the Internet for a long time. All of your sneaky quips, dodges and deflections show me time and time again, you're a sinister fucking creep. ... Your preaching and holier than thou shit will be counter-trolled at every turn on here so please by all means continue.

A man blames his bad childhood on leprechauns. He claims they don't exist, but yet still says without a doubt that they stole all his money and then killed his parents. That's why he became Leprechaun-Man

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07-02-2014, 10:13 AM
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 10:33 PM)Drich Wrote:  That said I have posted a time line of my beliefs and my understandings at least 3 or 4 times now.
Which version of that time line would you like us to use? There are variations... Drinking Beverage

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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