My conversion...
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06-02-2014, 10:26 AM
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 10:00 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  I remember having a similar experience when I was a teenager. I woke up one morning rigid with fear because I could sense a dark presence between my back and the wall. I was like this for a few minutes unable to move. With an extreme amount of effort I managed to move my hand out of the bed and switch on my bed-side lamp. It was rather dull. So with another concerted effort I jumped out of bed and switched on the light. I turned to face what was behind me and it was a black void. I then woke up properly still in bed and it was all a dream ...

I then looked at my muddy boots. Or was it ..? Why doesn't this forum have a strike-through font?

I still believed at the time in reincarnation, ghosts and other such stuff (my grandmother claimed to be a medium and my mother believed in such things as well). It really freaked me out at the time and I was rather nervous about going to bed the next night. Generally I always know when I am dreaming and I enjoy experiencing them in the same way that I know when I am watching TV. Lucid dreams by definition seem as real as when you are awake.

Being paralysed in lucid dreams is quite common. Carl Sagan talks about this a lot in relation to alien abduction stories in 'Demon haunted world'.

...And God can't use lucid dreams for what reason? Do you have scripture? Or this this just a matter of antifaith for you?

In truth God uses Dreams all the time. joseph, Daniel, John of Patmos to name a few...
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06-02-2014, 10:26 AM
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 10:22 AM)Drich Wrote:  
(06-02-2014 09:47 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I thought he said he wasn't a believer in another thread (could be mistaken)? How does someone blame their problems on something that doesn't exist?

I wasn't a 'believer' at the beginning of this thread either. What 'believer' taunts and dares God to send him to Hell?

You completely ignored the second part...

How does a non-believer blame something they don't believe in for all their problems????


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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06-02-2014, 10:27 AM (This post was last modified: 06-02-2014 10:30 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 10:10 AM)Drich Wrote:  
(06-02-2014 09:26 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Nice story. Needs more dragons and vampires though.
You do know of course the ancient Hebrews did not believe in heaven and hell.
Just more proof of your incompetence.

actually they did. What you said is a popular atheist myth, based on a general ignorance of the bible.

There was a divide among the Jews this divide was repersented by two factions in Christ day. The Pharisees and the Saducees. The Pharisees believed in the resurection and eternal life (for the righteous) and 'Sheol' for the unrighteous before God. They were in the minority. The Saducees were the ruling class of heiarchy. they are the ones who did not believe in the resurection (That is why they were Sad-U-See/No eternal life/reserection from the dead.)

I know what your thinking the Jews now are decendants from the saducess back then because they were the majority.. That could have been true IF Rome did not invade Jersalem destroy the temple and kill ALL of the Saducees. (around 70ad)That sect of Judaism died before all of the apstoles did.

Psalm 39 :
"Turn your gaze away from me, that I may smile again,
before I depart, and am no more"

Psalm 115 :
The dead do not praise the Lord,
nor do any that go down into silence".


You provided no references, and no substation of your claims. Therefore they are dismissed as ignorance of that culture. Mine are based on the work of scholars, including Dr. Bernard Brandon Scott, a Christian seminary professor in Tulsa.
You are obviously ignorant of the culture you attempt to discuss, which is why I have been asking why you think you are competent. Sheol is where ALL the dead went, and is not where Yahweh lived. Even if they did, there is no evidence for a heaven or a hell, and you have provided none. Any scholar knows the Jews did not have a concept of immortality as is common today including Paul of Tarsus, who thought only the saved were immortal. Perhaps you might consider getting an education BEFORE you start preaching. The cultural question of immortality has nothing to do with atheists or any other group. You disingenuous attempt to link it to atheism belies your prejudices.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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06-02-2014, 10:28 AM
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 10:19 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(06-02-2014 09:18 AM)Drich Wrote:  (back story up to this point) I had lived a hard life up to that point and I was angry with God. I blamed him for everything bad that happened to me. Then I thought I had found a fatal flaw in Christianity. It had to do with Hell. I thought it was so stupid to threaten the dead with Hell. I mean how can one burn a spirit? Then I started with the taunts and challenges to God because I knew if He existed He couldn't be all that He was cracked up to be if He was sending spirits/ghosts to a lake of fire.

I use to stop breathing while I slept, and I remember one time I was a sleep, but realized I was fairly lucid, but at the same time I could not wake, Which was an issue because I had stopped breathing.. Then I realized I was no longer in my room but at my judgment. I saw a being and immediately fell flat on the ground before Him and he told me not to be afraid and to rise and follow him. I did, to a line of people.(not a long line maybe 10) I saw Jesus welcoming people by name, and again I fell flat on the ground, and my life's events started to recount in my Head. (Before He even got to me)

When He told my neighbor Welcome my good and faithful servant, I knew right then, that was a close as I would ever come to hearing those words spoken to me, then the regret/deep despair begin to sink in. All of scripture made sense, and I knew then my life did not measure up to the standards of being a member of the body. At that point there was nothing I could say. No defense for what i did.

I was helped up and for the briefest of moments I saw in His eyes a glimmer, of what of an eternity of Love with Him could have been, then I saw heart break and disappointment in Him, Then I heard "away from me you wicked servant, I never knew you.."

My heart dropped, Then I pleaded: Lord lord give me one more chance..I fell to His feet and clinched as tightly as I could. swearing allegiance and love. I just needed another chance to prove it.

then either the ground gave way or I was thrown into the pit. I just remember falling into a black nothingness, as I traveled away from the light I felt myself being consumed by this Black almost like Hot tar. It was not fire but it invoked the same response as being burned. The panic and hysteria of being consumed lit every nerve ending as if it was being burned by the hottest flame. I could see nothing but heard a great yelling and many many groans of pain from every direction, But only bearly because of my own groans, and screams. (Through all of that I had a sense that these laments were not all human.) All the while falling and being in a great state of panic and pain. Fire, panic and pain are not even strong enough words to describe the intensity of the experience.

That's why when i talk to people about Hell I say the reason the bible uses fire to describe hell it is because Being consumed by fire is the closest thing we can relate to when we are thrown into the void of Hell. Even so fire doesn't even come close. If given the choice I would rather be burned for an eternity by what we know to be fire than experience "Hell fire" ever again.

As the last glimmer of the light was fading The reality of eternity began to set in and all hope quickly faded away. I saw the next step of my journey, and that was in the face of increasing despair, the luxury of the control we have over minds, was soon to be taken from me as well...

It was then I felt a hand grab me, and I began to ascend. the being that pulled me out of the pit told me that this was Only Gates of Hell and what I experiences was only a glimmer of what was to come. He told me that the rest of "this life" was my second Chance that I had asked for, and warned me that all that I experienced awaits me, if I did not know Jesus.

When I awoke I had sweat an outline of my entire body into my mattress and through my comforter.

The experience of Hell didn't change my life. It was the glimmer of an eternity with the one I love with all of my being did. I realized that Hell is not an incentive for Heaven. Hell is simply the absents of God and all that He created. Being members of Creation We literally burn with desire to be apart of it and with God.

This is what prompts me to ask people, If the descriptions of Heaven and Hell were somehow confused in the Past, and Heaven was a fiery pit (But God lived there.) And Hell was what we know to be Paradise, but God was absent, then would you still want to goto Heaven (The Fiery pit) and burn forever with God?

Those who seek Heaven as their just reward or Choose Heaven because they fear Hell don't understand what Heaven is.

Heaven is being with God no matter what it looks like.

Conversion? No, I think not. You already believed in a god.

This is just as presuppositional as the rest of your crap.

would you taunt God? would you dare Him to send you to hell? No God= No Hell = No reason not to taunt or make fun of.

Now ask that of someone who Believes in God even if they claim to be an atheist.
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06-02-2014, 10:31 AM
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 10:23 AM)Drich Wrote:  
(06-02-2014 09:56 AM)docskeptic Wrote:  Free medical advice, my friend. You have sleep apnea and/or hypnogogic hallucinations. See a doctor.

Doc
it has since stopped hence the use of the phrase ( I use to...)

Shit, what a tap dance........ so OK, you HAD sleep apnea and/or hypnogogic hallucinations. Thus you had the episode.

What nit-pickin way to have a conversation. Dodgy
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06-02-2014, 10:33 AM
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 10:31 AM)War Horse Wrote:  
(06-02-2014 10:23 AM)Drich Wrote:  it has since stopped hence the use of the phrase ( I use to...)

Shit, what a tap dance........ so OK, you HAD sleep apnea and/or hypnogogic hallucinations. Thus you had the episode.

What nit-pickin way to have a conversation. Dodgy

It's "I used" to. Did you graduate from 3rd Grade ?
I think we begin to see the problem here.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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06-02-2014, 10:34 AM
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 09:18 AM)Drich Wrote:  (back story up to this point) I had lived a hard life up to that point and I was angry with God. I blamed him for everything bad that happened to me. Then I thought I had found a fatal flaw in Christianity. It had to do with Hell. I thought it was so stupid to threaten the dead with Hell. I mean how can one burn a spirit? Then I started with the taunts and challenges to God because I knew if He existed He couldn't be all that He was cracked up to be if He was sending spirits/ghosts to a lake of fire.

I use to stop breathing while I slept, and I remember one time I was a sleep, but realized I was fairly lucid, but at the same time I could not wake, Which was an issue because I had stopped breathing.. Then I realized I was no longer in my room but at my judgment. I saw a being and immediately fell flat on the ground before Him and he told me not to be afraid and to rise and follow him. I did, to a line of people.(not a long line maybe 10) I saw Jesus welcoming people by name, and again I fell flat on the ground, and my life's events started to recount in my Head. (Before He even got to me)

When He told my neighbor Welcome my good and faithful servant, I knew right then, that was a close as I would ever come to hearing those words spoken to me, then the regret/deep despair begin to sink in. All of scripture made sense, and I knew then my life did not measure up to the standards of being a member of the body. At that point there was nothing I could say. No defense for what i did.

I was helped up and for the briefest of moments I saw in His eyes a glimmer, of what of an eternity of Love with Him could have been, then I saw heart break and disappointment in Him, Then I heard "away from me you wicked servant, I never knew you.."

My heart dropped, Then I pleaded: Lord lord give me one more chance..I fell to His feet and clinched as tightly as I could. swearing allegiance and love. I just needed another chance to prove it.

then either the ground gave way or I was thrown into the pit. I just remember falling into a black nothingness, as I traveled away from the light I felt myself being consumed by this Black almost like Hot tar. It was not fire but it invoked the same response as being burned. The panic and hysteria of being consumed lit every nerve ending as if it was being burned by the hottest flame. I could see nothing but heard a great yelling and many many groans of pain from every direction, But only bearly because of my own groans, and screams. (Through all of that I had a sense that these laments were not all human.) All the while falling and being in a great state of panic and pain. Fire, panic and pain are not even strong enough words to describe the intensity of the experience.

That's why when i talk to people about Hell I say the reason the bible uses fire to describe hell it is because Being consumed by fire is the closest thing we can relate to when we are thrown into the void of Hell. Even so fire doesn't even come close. If given the choice I would rather be burned for an eternity by what we know to be fire than experience "Hell fire" ever again.

As the last glimmer of the light was fading The reality of eternity began to set in and all hope quickly faded away. I saw the next step of my journey, and that was in the face of increasing despair, the luxury of the control we have over minds, was soon to be taken from me as well...

It was then I felt a hand grab me, and I began to ascend. the being that pulled me out of the pit told me that this was Only Gates of Hell and what I experiences was only a glimmer of what was to come. He told me that the rest of "this life" was my second Chance that I had asked for, and warned me that all that I experienced awaits me, if I did not know Jesus.

When I awoke I had sweat an outline of my entire body into my mattress and through my comforter.

The experience of Hell didn't change my life. It was the glimmer of an eternity with the one I love with all of my being did. I realized that Hell is not an incentive for Heaven. Hell is simply the absents of God and all that He created. Being members of Creation We literally burn with desire to be apart of it and with God.

This is what prompts me to ask people, If the descriptions of Heaven and Hell were somehow confused in the Past, and Heaven was a fiery pit (But God lived there.) And Hell was what we know to be Paradise, but God was absent, then would you still want to goto Heaven (The Fiery pit) and burn forever with God?

Those who seek Heaven as their just reward or Choose Heaven because they fear Hell don't understand what Heaven is.

Heaven is being with God no matter what it looks like.

Cute story, now make sure you get that non breathing thing fixed by your doc, you need oxygen flowing to your brain to think clearly.

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06-02-2014, 10:34 AM
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 09:18 AM)Drich Wrote:  (back story up to this point) I had lived a hard life up to that point and I was angry with God. I blamed him for everything bad that happened to me. Then I thought I had found a fatal flaw in Christianity. It had to do with Hell. I thought it was so stupid to threaten the dead with Hell. I mean how can one burn a spirit? Then I started with the taunts and challenges to God because I knew if He existed He couldn't be all that He was cracked up to be if He was sending spirits/ghosts to a lake of fire.

I use to stop breathing while I slept, and I remember one time I was a sleep, but realized I was fairly lucid, but at the same time I could not wake, Which was an issue because I had stopped breathing.. Then I realized I was no longer in my room but at my judgment. I saw a being and immediately fell flat on the ground before Him and he told me not to be afraid and to rise and follow him. I did, to a line of people.(not a long line maybe 10) I saw Jesus welcoming people by name, and again I fell flat on the ground, and my life's events started to recount in my Head. (Before He even got to me)

When He told my neighbor Welcome my good and faithful servant, I knew right then, that was a close as I would ever come to hearing those words spoken to me, then the regret/deep despair begin to sink in. All of scripture made sense, and I knew then my life did not measure up to the standards of being a member of the body. At that point there was nothing I could say. No defense for what i did.

I was helped up and for the briefest of moments I saw in His eyes a glimmer, of what of an eternity of Love with Him could have been, then I saw heart break and disappointment in Him, Then I heard "away from me you wicked servant, I never knew you.."

My heart dropped, Then I pleaded: Lord lord give me one more chance..I fell to His feet and clinched as tightly as I could. swearing allegiance and love. I just needed another chance to prove it.

then either the ground gave way or I was thrown into the pit. I just remember falling into a black nothingness, as I traveled away from the light I felt myself being consumed by this Black almost like Hot tar. It was not fire but it invoked the same response as being burned. The panic and hysteria of being consumed lit every nerve ending as if it was being burned by the hottest flame. I could see nothing but heard a great yelling and many many groans of pain from every direction, But only bearly because of my own groans, and screams. (Through all of that I had a sense that these laments were not all human.) All the while falling and being in a great state of panic and pain. Fire, panic and pain are not even strong enough words to describe the intensity of the experience.

That's why when i talk to people about Hell I say the reason the bible uses fire to describe hell it is because Being consumed by fire is the closest thing we can relate to when we are thrown into the void of Hell. Even so fire doesn't even come close. If given the choice I would rather be burned for an eternity by what we know to be fire than experience "Hell fire" ever again.

As the last glimmer of the light was fading The reality of eternity began to set in and all hope quickly faded away. I saw the next step of my journey, and that was in the face of increasing despair, the luxury of the control we have over minds, was soon to be taken from me as well...

It was then I felt a hand grab me, and I began to ascend. the being that pulled me out of the pit told me that this was Only Gates of Hell and what I experiences was only a glimmer of what was to come. He told me that the rest of "this life" was my second Chance that I had asked for, and warned me that all that I experienced awaits me, if I did not know Jesus.

When I awoke I had sweat an outline of my entire body into my mattress and through my comforter.

The experience of Hell didn't change my life. It was the glimmer of an eternity with the one I love with all of my being did. I realized that Hell is not an incentive for Heaven. Hell is simply the absents of God and all that He created. Being members of Creation We literally burn with desire to be apart of it and with God.

This is what prompts me to ask people, If the descriptions of Heaven and Hell were somehow confused in the Past, and Heaven was a fiery pit (But God lived there.) And Hell was what we know to be Paradise, but God was absent, then would you still want to goto Heaven (The Fiery pit) and burn forever with God?

Those who seek Heaven as their just reward or Choose Heaven because they fear Hell don't understand what Heaven is.

Heaven is being with God no matter what it looks like.


Cool story bro, needs more dragons... Drinking Beverage

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06-02-2014, 10:35 AM
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 10:23 AM)Drich Wrote:  
(06-02-2014 09:56 AM)docskeptic Wrote:  Free medical advice, my friend. You have sleep apnea and/or hypnogogic hallucinations. See a doctor.

Doc
it has since stopped hence the use of the phrase ( I use to...)

Even so, how do you know you did not have sleep apnea back then and that your conversion experience was not just a hallucination? Do you still see visions?

Doc
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06-02-2014, 10:38 AM
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 10:22 AM)Drich Wrote:  
(06-02-2014 09:41 AM)Impulse Wrote:  Question: How is it that nerves are part of the physical body, but you somehow had them in spiritual form (supposedly)? Drinking Beverage

again Hell fire is not fire. Hell fire is the sheer emptiness or lack of creation. The burning consuming panic/dread one feels is the the result of a member of creation being consumed by the nothingness that is Hell.

I strongly believe the term 'fire' when used to describe Hell in the bible is to describe the emotions one feels when he/she is being consumed by fire, not the tactile experience of the fire itself...
What part of that was supposed to address "every nerve ending", which was your terminology for what you experienced? Emotional pain is far different from nerve pain.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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