My conversion...
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
06-02-2014, 01:41 PM
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 12:16 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I'm sorry it seems to me that with all your mental gymnastics and confirmation bias that it's you who have dismissed logic and reason.

Don't think of us as nasty atheists discounting or even shitting on your conversion story.

Think of it this way, we're just pointing out the flaws in your plot so you can improve your story for the next time you share it. Smile

Yes, and....
Shoo fly
So tell me 'mom' is your deconversion story also 'mental gymnastics?'
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-02-2014, 01:50 PM (This post was last modified: 06-02-2014 02:07 PM by War Horse.)
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 01:40 PM)Drich Wrote:  
(06-02-2014 01:38 PM)Pippen Wrote:  Sounds like Sleep Paralysis to me. Pretty common.

So tell me why you think God can't use something like 'sleep paralysis?' Do you have some sort of proof or is this a matter of faith?

Really ? Insert "god" for everything you cant explain ?

This is douchebagery at its best, your a lost cause...... go with god or whatever else you dream up, and enjoy life. You cant and wont change anyones mind in here, as that would require a dumbing down.

Now please check your meds, or at least get some help.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes War Horse's post
06-02-2014, 02:02 PM
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 01:41 PM)Drich Wrote:  
(06-02-2014 12:16 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I'm sorry it seems to me that with all your mental gymnastics and confirmation bias that it's you who have dismissed logic and reason.

Don't think of us as nasty atheists discounting or even shitting on your conversion story.

Think of it this way, we're just pointing out the flaws in your plot so you can improve your story for the next time you share it. Smile

Yes, and....
Shoo fly
So tell me 'mom' is your deconversion story also 'mental gymnastics?'

No!

Shoo fly!


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Momsurroundedbyboys's post
06-02-2014, 02:05 PM
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 02:02 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(06-02-2014 01:41 PM)Drich Wrote:  So tell me 'mom' is your deconversion story also 'mental gymnastics?'

No!

Shoo fly!


+3 points - because "No" Should always be a viable response!!!

ThumbsupThumbsupThumbsup
(I'd give you more rep points if I could)

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes WitchSabrina's post
06-02-2014, 02:06 PM
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 09:18 AM)Drich Wrote:  (back story up to this point) I had lived a hard life up to that point and I was angry with God. I blamed him for everything bad that happened to me. Then I thought I had found a fatal flaw in Christianity. It had to do with Hell. I thought it was so stupid to threaten the dead with Hell. I mean how can one burn a spirit? Then I started with the taunts and challenges to God because I knew if He existed He couldn't be all that He was cracked up to be if He was sending spirits/ghosts to a lake of fire.

I use to stop breathing while I slept, and I remember one time I was a sleep, but realized I was fairly lucid, but at the same time I could not wake, Which was an issue because I had stopped breathing.. Then I realized I was no longer in my room but at my judgment. I saw a being and immediately fell flat on the ground before Him and he told me not to be afraid and to rise and follow him. I did, to a line of people.(not a long line maybe 10) I saw Jesus welcoming people by name, and again I fell flat on the ground, and my life's events started to recount in my Head. (Before He even got to me)

When He told my neighbor Welcome my good and faithful servant, I knew right then, that was a close as I would ever come to hearing those words spoken to me, then the regret/deep despair begin to sink in. All of scripture made sense, and I knew then my life did not measure up to the standards of being a member of the body. At that point there was nothing I could say. No defense for what i did.

I was helped up and for the briefest of moments I saw in His eyes a glimmer, of what of an eternity of Love with Him could have been, then I saw heart break and disappointment in Him, Then I heard "away from me you wicked servant, I never knew you.."

My heart dropped, Then I pleaded: Lord lord give me one more chance..I fell to His feet and clinched as tightly as I could. swearing allegiance and love. I just needed another chance to prove it.

then either the ground gave way or I was thrown into the pit. I just remember falling into a black nothingness, as I traveled away from the light I felt myself being consumed by this Black almost like Hot tar. It was not fire but it invoked the same response as being burned. The panic and hysteria of being consumed lit every nerve ending as if it was being burned by the hottest flame. I could see nothing but heard a great yelling and many many groans of pain from every direction, But only bearly because of my own groans, and screams. (Through all of that I had a sense that these laments were not all human.) All the while falling and being in a great state of panic and pain. Fire, panic and pain are not even strong enough words to describe the intensity of the experience.

That's why when i talk to people about Hell I say the reason the bible uses fire to describe hell it is because Being consumed by fire is the closest thing we can relate to when we are thrown into the void of Hell. Even so fire doesn't even come close. If given the choice I would rather be burned for an eternity by what we know to be fire than experience "Hell fire" ever again.

As the last glimmer of the light was fading The reality of eternity began to set in and all hope quickly faded away. I saw the next step of my journey, and that was in the face of increasing despair, the luxury of the control we have over minds, was soon to be taken from me as well...

It was then I felt a hand grab me, and I began to ascend. the being that pulled me out of the pit told me that this was Only Gates of Hell and what I experiences was only a glimmer of what was to come. He told me that the rest of "this life" was my second Chance that I had asked for, and warned me that all that I experienced awaits me, if I did not know Jesus.

When I awoke I had sweat an outline of my entire body into my mattress and through my comforter.

The experience of Hell didn't change my life. It was the glimmer of an eternity with the one I love with all of my being did. I realized that Hell is not an incentive for Heaven. Hell is simply the absents of God and all that He created. Being members of Creation We literally burn with desire to be apart of it and with God.

This is what prompts me to ask people, If the descriptions of Heaven and Hell were somehow confused in the Past, and Heaven was a fiery pit (But God lived there.) And Hell was what we know to be Paradise, but God was absent, then would you still want to goto Heaven (The Fiery pit) and burn forever with God?

Those who seek Heaven as their just reward or Choose Heaven because they fear Hell don't understand what Heaven is.

Heaven is being with God no matter what it looks like.

((I haven't read the other replies, yet. I wanted to post this first, and then I'll read through and follow up.))

I'll leave aside the question of how you could be angry at a God you didn't believe existed. I'm sure others will pounce on it.

As for the rest, I could take you entirely at your word that this is exactly what you experienced, and still not read the slightest supernatural element into it. It sounds indistinguishable from a nightmare... exactly like a nightmare, in fact... and maybe a touch of sleep apnea and night-sweats. (The apnea is usually quite treatable.)) I say "sounds indistinguishable", because hey, maybe you found a way to tell the difference. If so, how did you discern between the two possibilities? I'm curious as to the methodology you employed.

Also, would you have accepted this level of evidence as justification for another belief? If, for example, you had a dream/vision/pick your term, in which it was Mohamed and not Jesus who rescued you, would you be a Muslim now? For that matter, how did you tell the difference between the two... can you recognize either of them by sight? If you had one of life as a worm and the Buddha came to you and told you that this is what would happen to you if you did not mend your ways, would you become a Buddhist? If you had one of Hades offering you a choice between the Fields of Punishment and Elysium, would you now be worshiping the Greek gods? If you hadn't had any of these dreams personally, but were hearing them second-hand from a Muslim, a Buddhist, or a Hellenic, would you be greatly moved by them? And if the answer to any of the questions in this paragraph is no, then why would you expect us to put much weight on your account?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Reltzik's post
06-02-2014, 02:06 PM
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 01:40 PM)Drich Wrote:  
(06-02-2014 01:38 PM)Pippen Wrote:  Sounds like Sleep Paralysis to me. Pretty common.

So tell me why you think God can't use something like 'sleep paralysis?' Do you have some sort of proof or is this a matter of faith?

I'm sure you can use google to find out more about it. It is actually a fascinating subject and a rather specialised area of study. I had in once when I was maybe 8 or 9 and it is an intense and terrifying experience and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. I can see how the religiously inclined would attribute the experience to some kind of divine intervention and many do, but if you look into the research on it both on the sleep science and cultural side it makes a lot more sense. David Hufford has some vids on youtube is a good place to start.

There are also a lot of Christians on there as well putting their experience down to a religious experience. I'm sure you would want to take a balanced approach and look at the science side of it as well rather than just cherry picking the ones that reinforce your beliefs.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-02-2014, 02:20 PM
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 01:39 PM)Drich Wrote:  
(06-02-2014 12:30 PM)Impulse Wrote:  How are you missing this? If you don't believe in "god", you cannot blame "god" because there is nothing to blame. That's all there is to it. No atheist blames "god" for anything.

You can reject the concept of god and even blame the concept for certain things, but you wouldn't be taunting "god" or daring "god" to send you to hell anymore than you would be taunting Zeus or daring Zeus to send you to hell. I mean exactly who were you speaking to when you were taunting and daring? Think about it.

maybe take sometime and READ what I write before commenting.

When I was 10ish i went to church with my mom. believed in God.

Bad stuff happened Blamed God

Then questioned God/God's existance No answer

Challenged God no answer

Decided I was an atheist because I did not believe there was a God.

So tell me again how does this differ from 12 pages of this:
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...sion-story
Typical. If you point out a logical inconsistency to a theist, the story usually changes. And I read every word you wrote.

THIS is your original story:
(06-02-2014 09:18 AM)Drich Wrote:  (back story up to this point) I had lived a hard life up to that point and I was angry with God. I blamed him for everything bad that happened to me. Then I thought I had found a fatal flaw in Christianity. It had to do with Hell. I thought it was so stupid to threaten the dead with Hell. I mean how can one burn a spirit? Then I started with the taunts and challenges to God because I knew if He existed He couldn't be all that He was cracked up to be if He was sending spirits/ghosts to a lake of fire.
You blamed God as a believer (1st 2 sentences). Then you had doubts (found fatal flaw). Doubting is not atheism. Then you started taunts and challenges because "if He existed"... and "if He was sending spirits/ghosts to a lake of fire"... The "if" category represents doubts, not a conclusion that God does not exist. So you taunted and challenged amid doubts only. If you were decidedly atheist, there would have been no god to taunt or challenge.

(06-02-2014 10:22 AM)Drich Wrote:  
(06-02-2014 09:47 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I thought he said he wasn't a believer in another thread (could be mistaken)? How does someone blame their problems on something that doesn't exist?

I wasn't a 'believer' at the beginning of this thread either. What 'believer' taunts and dares God to send him to Hell?
This was the first point at which you said you weren't a believer. Depending on what you meant, that still could represent doubts or it could also be the first time you mentioned atheism. If the latter, then it's the first time you expressed atheism and only after the logical inconsistency had been pointed out to you. If the former, then here was the first time you said "anti theism" specifically - and again, it was after the logical inconsistency had been pointed out. The story changed.

Now here you called it "atheism". You're all over the board. Dodgy

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Impulse's post
06-02-2014, 02:26 PM (This post was last modified: 06-02-2014 02:46 PM by Reltzik.)
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 10:00 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  Why doesn't this forum have a strike-through font include a strike-through font in the visual editor?

Fixed. Hit the "reply" button and look at the quote to see how to format it by hand.

(06-02-2014 11:13 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Had your mother still believed in the Buddha, would you have blamed him?

.... pretty sure Buddhism doesn't work like this... oh, hey, Drich got that already...

(06-02-2014 11:32 AM)Drich Wrote:  Buddhism does not work that way. budda is not a god. The budda was a man who found spiritual enlightment. Buddhists are to walk the path to find said enlightment. 'suffering' is supposed to be apart of one's journey.

... but I thought the existence of suffering, that it could be addressed, etc, comprised the Four Noble Truths and was, in many ways, the enlightenment sought by Buddhism (or the motivation to seek that enlightenment?), rather than apart from the journey.

... okay, waded my way through the replies. I'll retract the question about blaming God... which I didn't really advance anyway. And since you clarified, I'll rephrase my question about "what if it had been Mohamed rather than Jesus" to "what if it had been an angel of Allah rather than one of the Christian God?"
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-02-2014, 02:28 PM
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 02:06 PM)Pippen Wrote:  
(06-02-2014 01:40 PM)Drich Wrote:  So tell me why you think God can't use something like 'sleep paralysis?' Do you have some sort of proof or is this a matter of faith?

I'm sure you can use google to find out more about it. It is actually a fascinating subject and a rather specialised area of study. I had in once when I was maybe 8 or 9 and it is an intense and terrifying experience and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. I can see how the religiously inclined would attribute the experience to some kind of divine intervention and many do, but if you look into the research on it both on the sleep science and cultural side it makes a lot more sense. David Hufford has some vids on youtube is a good place to start.

There are also a lot of Christians on there as well putting their experience down to a religious experience. I'm sure you would want to take a balanced approach and look at the science side of it as well rather than just cherry picking the ones that reinforce your beliefs.
Sleep paralysis occurred to me in combination with lucid dreams three times when I was a kid and none of it had anything to do with religion. I was Catholic at the time and never thought for a second religion was related. I know it was exactly 3 times because my eyes were open, my body paralyzed, my dreams took place in my room like hallucinations, and everything was so vivid I can never forget. It was terrifying as a child and, in each case, it was the sheer terror that I felt that finally broke me out of the paralysis.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-02-2014, 02:28 PM
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 10:00 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  Why doesn't this forum have a strike-through font?
Strike-through

BB-Code:
Code:
[s]Put text here[/s]

Atir aissom atir imon
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: