My conversion...
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06-02-2014, 02:38 PM
RE: My conversion...
Opps forgot to add...

It is quite different from a normal nightmare. Much more intense and almost a visceral sensation as you described. I have never had another experience of it but even though it was a good thirty years ago I remember it distinctly. I am not and have never been in the slightest bit religious and even to me it took on the dimensions where I really felt there was a demon after my soul. But hell I was a little kid and kids think all sorts of dumb stuff.

I have no doubt that you would be more susceptible to filtering your experience through a religious context as that is what you know and it helps you make sense of it. Other cultures and religions apply their filters to explain it in their own contexts. The similarities of reported cases across different cultures races and religions are quite striking which indicates it is firmly in the realm of human neurology rather than the divine.

Either that or God gets his shits and giggles from scaring the living fuck out of you while you are sleeping.
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06-02-2014, 03:29 PM
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 11:32 AM)Drich Wrote:  
Quote:you cannot blame something you don't believe to exist for your troubles!
Not true. The primary reason current Atheist who were once theists exist is because Atheist find issue with the understanding of the God they grew up with. This is not resolved, then the former theist seperates himself from belief in God.
Some of your members here claim most of you started out this way. Are you saying the majority of the people who claim to be atheist on this site are still really theist?

I have no idea what you're trying to say, but let me try and simplify the argument for you:
If I don't believe in God leprechauns, how can I logically blame them for my misfortunes?
A true atheist will never blame something they don't believe in. Now, with that said: blaming religion is not the same as blaming God. You seem to be confusing the two (from what I understand).
Now, if atheists challenge God, it could be for multiple reasons. As Mom had started before, it seems that yours was that you desperately wanted to believe (we've all been there - if you deconverted). Though normally it's to mock the religious or prove a point.
If my friend believed in leprechauns, do need to believe in them to in order to challenge his beliefs? Nope.

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06-02-2014, 03:46 PM (This post was last modified: 06-02-2014 04:28 PM by Simon Moon.)
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 09:18 AM)Drich Wrote:  (back story up to this point) I had lived a hard life up to that point and I was angry with God. I blamed him for everything bad that happened to me. Then I thought I had found a fatal flaw in Christianity. It had to do with Hell. I thought it was so stupid to threaten the dead with Hell. I mean how can one burn a spirit? Then I started with the taunts and challenges to God because I knew if He existed He couldn't be all that He was cracked up to be if He was sending spirits/ghosts to a lake of fire.

I use to stop breathing while I slept, and I remember one time I was a sleep, but realized I was fairly lucid, but at the same time I could not wake, Which was an issue because I had stopped breathing.. Then I realized I was no longer in my room but at my judgment. I saw a being and immediately fell flat on the ground before Him and he told me not to be afraid and to rise and follow him. I did, to a line of people.(not a long line maybe 10) I saw Jesus welcoming people by name, and again I fell flat on the ground, and my life's events started to recount in my Head. (Before He even got to me)

When He told my neighbor Welcome my good and faithful servant, I knew right then, that was a close as I would ever come to hearing those words spoken to me, then the regret/deep despair begin to sink in. All of scripture made sense, and I knew then my life did not measure up to the standards of being a member of the body. At that point there was nothing I could say. No defense for what i did.

I was helped up and for the briefest of moments I saw in His eyes a glimmer, of what of an eternity of Love with Him could have been, then I saw heart break and disappointment in Him, Then I heard "away from me you wicked servant, I never knew you.."

My heart dropped, Then I pleaded: Lord lord give me one more chance..I fell to His feet and clinched as tightly as I could. swearing allegiance and love. I just needed another chance to prove it.

then either the ground gave way or I was thrown into the pit. I just remember falling into a black nothingness, as I traveled away from the light I felt myself being consumed by this Black almost like Hot tar. It was not fire but it invoked the same response as being burned. The panic and hysteria of being consumed lit every nerve ending as if it was being burned by the hottest flame. I could see nothing but heard a great yelling and many many groans of pain from every direction, But only bearly because of my own groans, and screams. (Through all of that I had a sense that these laments were not all human.) All the while falling and being in a great state of panic and pain. Fire, panic and pain are not even strong enough words to describe the intensity of the experience.

That's why when i talk to people about Hell I say the reason the bible uses fire to describe hell it is because Being consumed by fire is the closest thing we can relate to when we are thrown into the void of Hell. Even so fire doesn't even come close. If given the choice I would rather be burned for an eternity by what we know to be fire than experience "Hell fire" ever again.

As the last glimmer of the light was fading The reality of eternity began to set in and all hope quickly faded away. I saw the next step of my journey, and that was in the face of increasing despair, the luxury of the control we have over minds, was soon to be taken from me as well...

It was then I felt a hand grab me, and I began to ascend. the being that pulled me out of the pit told me that this was Only Gates of Hell and what I experiences was only a glimmer of what was to come. He told me that the rest of "this life" was my second Chance that I had asked for, and warned me that all that I experienced awaits me, if I did not know Jesus.

When I awoke I had sweat an outline of my entire body into my mattress and through my comforter.

The experience of Hell didn't change my life. It was the glimmer of an eternity with the one I love with all of my being did. I realized that Hell is not an incentive for Heaven. Hell is simply the absents of God and all that He created. Being members of Creation We literally burn with desire to be apart of it and with God.

This is what prompts me to ask people, If the descriptions of Heaven and Hell were somehow confused in the Past, and Heaven was a fiery pit (But God lived there.) And Hell was what we know to be Paradise, but God was absent, then would you still want to goto Heaven (The Fiery pit) and burn forever with God?

Those who seek Heaven as their just reward or Choose Heaven because they fear Hell don't understand what Heaven is.

Heaven is being with God no matter what it looks like.


Yeah, you used to have a case of sleep apnea coupled with sleep paralysis. This condition caused you to have seemingly very real experience.

1000's of people have these. A few hundred years ago they thought they were being attacked by succubus or incubus. In the last few decades people believe they are being abducted by aliens.

People in other cultures have these where they experience their gods.

But here's why you are being disingenuous.

You now claim for us to find 'God' we have to use the A/S/K method, which you have outlined elsewhere, yet you didn't have to use this method. Why did you deserve to have 'God' visit you without the effort of the A/S/K method, but we don't?
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06-02-2014, 03:49 PM (This post was last modified: 06-02-2014 04:06 PM by Simon Moon.)
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 01:41 PM)Drich Wrote:  So tell me 'mom' is your deconversion story also 'mental gymnastics?'

Not even close to being the same.

Deconverting does not require any MAGICAL events.

It only requires the correct application of critical thinking and skepticism to the 'god' claim.
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06-02-2014, 05:53 PM (This post was last modified: 06-02-2014 05:56 PM by Noelani.)
RE: My conversion...
You actually think you went to hell? And you go around telling people what hell is like?
Are you discounting that this might just be a dream and not some message from a deity? How could you prove the difference?

You were not an atheist if you were tempting a god, let alone specifically the god that is talked about in the bible.

I'm a medium and I'm getting something from a spirit who says he's Freud. He's saying something about... a check... no.... he says....your dream means.... you should get your VD checked out and..... Uh oh, I'm losing him. Oh well it was probably going to be something about your mother.
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06-02-2014, 05:58 PM
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 11:32 AM)Drich Wrote:  Not true. The primary reason current Atheist who were once theists exist is because Atheist find issue with the understanding of the God they grew up with. This is not resolved, then the former theist seperates himself from belief in God.

It's "separates", not seperates. The plural form of atheist, is "atheists", not "atheist".

Please post the peer reviewed study and the polling results, of the majority of atheists

Oh wait. Never mind. You just made that shit up.
Not a good day for you, I see.

Tongue

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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06-02-2014, 06:20 PM
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 10:28 AM)Drich Wrote:  
(06-02-2014 10:19 AM)Chas Wrote:  Conversion? No, I think not. You already believed in a god.

This is just as presuppositional as the rest of your crap.

would you taunt God? would you dare Him to send you to hell? No God= No Hell = No reason not to taunt or make fun of.

Now ask that of someone who Believes in God even if they claim to be an atheist.

What does that even mean? Atheists don't believe in any gods.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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06-02-2014, 06:23 PM
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 11:11 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(06-02-2014 10:46 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  If that's even true....I think he whipped up a good story to regale his believer friends....and thought he'd repeat it here.

Dom let me ask you something, you've been a non-believer a long time, have you ever blamed god on your problems?


Lol, nope, no one there to blame but myself.

Or maybe Chas..... Tongue

Oh, sure, blame me. All my ex-wives do.
Jump on the bandwagon. Weeping

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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06-02-2014, 07:41 PM
RE: My conversion...
I find it interesting that anyone with a "near death" or "dream experience" always seems to experience the god they already are familiar with. Ie, god is always a human. Always a man. Always a certain age range. And of a religion you are at least familiar with.

If you are a Christian, you see white Jesus. If you are Muslim, you see Mohammad, if you are Hindu, you see mithra.

Or it's your family members that greet you.

Why don't perfect strangers meet you- Someone you've never seen before.

Why isn't god something beyond what we've imagined?

Perhaps the answer is simply because we created him, and any dreams in which we have or experiences we have are part of stored memory or preconceived notions.

I'd be more inclined to give credence to these claims if there was at least ONE original thought in there.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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06-02-2014, 07:57 PM
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 07:41 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  I find it interesting that anyone with a "near death" or "dream experience" always seems to experience the god they already are familiar with. Ie, god is always a human. Always a man. Always a certain age range. And of a religion you are at least familiar with.

If you are a Christian, you see white Jesus. If you are Muslim, you see Mohammad, if you are Hindu, you see mithra.

Or it's your family members that greet you.

Why don't perfect strangers meet you- Someone you've never seen before.

Why isn't god something beyond what we've imagined?

Perhaps the answer is simply because we created him, and any dreams in which we have or experiences we have are part of stored memory or preconceived notions.

I'd be more inclined to give credence to these claims if there was at least ONE original thought in there.

Why do you wake up when you die in a dream?

Cause you don't know what happens next.

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