My conversion...
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06-02-2014, 08:02 PM
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 10:10 AM)Drich Wrote:  
(06-02-2014 09:26 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Nice story. Needs more dragons and vampires though.
You do know of course the ancient Hebrews did not believe in heaven and hell.
Just more proof of your incompetence.

actually they did. What you said is a popular atheist myth, based on a general ignorance of the bible.

There was a divide among the Jews this divide was repersented by two factions in Christ day. The Pharisees and the Saducees. The Pharisees believed in the resurection and eternal life (for the righteous) and 'Sheol' for the unrighteous before God. They were in the minority. The Saducees were the ruling class of heiarchy. they are the ones who did not believe in the resurection (That is why they were Sad-U-See/No eternal life/reserection from the dead.)

I know what your thinking the Jews now are decendants from the saducess back then because they were the majority.. That could have been true IF Rome did not invade Jersalem destroy the temple and kill ALL of the Saducees. (around 70ad)That sect of Judaism died before all of the apstoles did.

Paging Baruch to explain what Jews did/do believe about hell...
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06-02-2014, 08:14 PM
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 01:50 PM)War Horse Wrote:  
(06-02-2014 01:40 PM)Drich Wrote:  So tell me why you think God can't use something like 'sleep paralysis?' Do you have some sort of proof or is this a matter of faith?

Really ? Insert "god" for everything you cant explain ?

This is douchebagery at its best, your a lost cause...... go with god or whatever else you dream up, and enjoy life. You cant and wont change anyones mind in here, as that would require a dumbing down.

Now please check your meds, or at least get some help.

Is this a parody? I am 'inserting God' For things I can understand then asking why God can use the things we can understand?

Wouldn't it stand to reason that the God of the universe who created the natural world would create processed He can use to accomplish His will? What makes you think God is always bound to work in ways we can not describe or possiable understand?
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06-02-2014, 08:15 PM
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 02:02 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(06-02-2014 01:41 PM)Drich Wrote:  So tell me 'mom' is your deconversion story also 'mental gymnastics?'

No!

Shoo fly!
Then How does my deconversion differ form yours?
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06-02-2014, 08:25 PM
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 08:15 PM)Drich Wrote:  
(06-02-2014 02:02 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  No!

Shoo fly!
Then How does my deconversion differ form yours?

You mean besides that you're still a theist and haven't come to terms that you never truly deconverted?

Atir aissom atir imon
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06-02-2014, 08:33 PM
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 02:06 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  ((I haven't read the other replies, yet. I wanted to post this first, and then I'll read through and follow up.))

I'll leave aside the question of how you could be angry at a God you didn't believe existed. I'm sure others will pounce on it.

As for the rest, I could take you entirely at your word that this is exactly what you experienced, and still not read the slightest supernatural element into it. It sounds indistinguishable from a nightmare... exactly like a nightmare, in fact... and maybe a touch of sleep apnea and night-sweats. (The apnea is usually quite treatable.)) I say "sounds indistinguishable", because hey, maybe you found a way to tell the difference. If so, how did you discern between the two possibilities? I'm curious as to the methodology you employed.
None, If you look at the story again I identified it as a dream. Why? Because I started my journey in Bed and I woke up in Bed. therefore by definition it was a dream... That said so what? In your world is God prohibited in using dreams to communicate to you? There is a well established history of God using dreams to communicate to man. As I said in the above post:"Wouldn't it stand to reason that the God of the universe who created the natural world would create processed He can use to accomplish His will? What makes you think God is always bound to work in ways we can not describe or possiable understand? "

God is not found in How an event happens, but in the message itself.

Quote:Also, would you have accepted this level of evidence as justification for another belief?
This was just the tip of the Iceberg. I have said many times if one is willing to A/S/K God will do whatever it takes to establish (which is what happened here,) AND Maintain a relationship with you. Which happens everyday for the rest of your life.

Quote: If, for example, you had a dream/vision/pick your term, in which it was Mohamed and not Jesus who rescued you, would you be a Muslim now?
I would have looked in that direction for sure... But I would have quickly found out Allah does not offer a Follower of Islam the Love The God of the bible offers. Again it was not Hell that moved me. It was the nanosecond of complete and total Love that pushed me towards God. Without that I don't care what else a deity has to offer.

Quote: For that matter, how did you tell the difference between the two...
The God of the bible offers Love, allah offers reward. If I was a space smuggler with a large bounty on my head i might be into allah.

Quote:can you recognize either of them by sight?
yes, no question.

Quote: If you had one of life as a worm and the Buddha came to you and told you that this is what would happen to you if you did not mend your ways, would you become a Buddhist?
probably not.. I can find contentment as a worm.

Quote:If you had one of Hades offering you a choice between the Fields of Punishment and Elysium, would you now be worshiping the Greek gods?
No, i would rather face Hell or the worst the greek gods could muster rather than live without the God of the Bible.

Quote:If you hadn't had any of these dreams personally, but were hearing them second-hand from a Muslim, a Buddhist, or a Hellenic, would you be greatly moved by them? And if the answer to any of the questions in this paragraph is no, then why would you expect us to put much weight on your account?
Begs the question. you have fail to consider the elements that turn me on to the God of the bible. It was not promise of reward or fear of Hell It was the Agape' ONLY The God of the Bible offers. No other deity or religion offers this. (I have studied them, google it if you do not want to take my word for it)
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06-02-2014, 08:35 PM
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 08:15 PM)Drich Wrote:  
(06-02-2014 02:02 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  No!

Shoo fly!
Then How does my deconversion differ form yours?

I think that is evident.

Again, shoo fly.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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06-02-2014, 08:35 PM
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 02:26 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  
(06-02-2014 10:00 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  Why doesn't this forum have a strike-through font include a strike-through font in the visual editor?

Fixed. Hit the "reply" button and look at the quote to see how to format it by hand.

(06-02-2014 11:13 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Had your mother still believed in the Buddha, would you have blamed him?

.... pretty sure Buddhism doesn't work like this... oh, hey, Drich got that already...

(06-02-2014 11:32 AM)Drich Wrote:  Buddhism does not work that way. budda is not a god. The budda was a man who found spiritual enlightment. Buddhists are to walk the path to find said enlightment. 'suffering' is supposed to be apart of one's journey.

... but I thought the existence of suffering, that it could be addressed, etc, comprised the Four Noble Truths and was, in many ways, the enlightenment sought by Buddhism (or the motivation to seek that enlightenment?), rather than apart from the journey.

... okay, waded my way through the replies. I'll retract the question about blaming God... which I didn't really advance anyway. And since you clarified, I'll rephrase my question about "what if it had been Mohamed rather than Jesus" to "what if it had been an angel of Allah rather than one of the Christian God?"

see the post above
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06-02-2014, 08:39 PM
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 02:38 PM)Pippen Wrote:  Opps forgot to add...

It is quite different from a normal nightmare. Much more intense and almost a visceral sensation as you described. I have never had another experience of it but even though it was a good thirty years ago I remember it distinctly. I am not and have never been in the slightest bit religious and even to me it took on the dimensions where I really felt there was a demon after my soul. But hell I was a little kid and kids think all sorts of dumb stuff.

I have no doubt that you would be more susceptible to filtering your experience through a religious context as that is what you know and it helps you make sense of it. Other cultures and religions apply their filters to explain it in their own contexts. The similarities of reported cases across different cultures races and religions are quite striking which indicates it is firmly in the realm of human neurology rather than the divine.

Either that or God gets his shits and giggles from scaring the living fuck out of you while you are sleeping.
I think your broad generalizations do not speak to the specifics I put in the OP.. This is a general stock (safe) response for someone in your position to someone like me... If I hadn't mention the specifics I mentioned.
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06-02-2014, 08:44 PM
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 03:29 PM)Im_Ryan Wrote:  
(06-02-2014 11:32 AM)Drich Wrote:  Not true. The primary reason current Atheist who were once theists exist is because Atheist find issue with the understanding of the God they grew up with. This is not resolved, then the former theist seperates himself from belief in God.
Some of your members here claim most of you started out this way. Are you saying the majority of the people who claim to be atheist on this site are still really theist?

I have no idea what you're trying to say, but let me try and simplify the argument for you:
If I don't believe in God leprechauns, how can I logically blame them for my misfortunes?
A true atheist will never blame something they don't believe in. Now, with that said: blaming religion is not the same as blaming God. You seem to be confusing the two (from what I understand).
Now, if atheists challenge God, it could be for multiple reasons. As Mom had started before, it seems that yours was that you desperately wanted to believe (we've all been there - if you deconverted). Though normally it's to mock the religious or prove a point.
If my friend believed in leprechauns, do need to believe in them to in order to challenge his beliefs? Nope.

Me:
I was 10, went to church maybe a couple dozen times. Acknoweledged God. heck I think I watch more tv healer/preachers more than I have ever been to church. Benny hinn types..

Then bad stuff happened

Then I blamed God for the bad stuff

Then began to question God, I got no answer

Then I began to rebell, still nothing

Then I declared my disbelief, and began to curse God.

Now tell me how this story differs from the 12 pages of deconversions in the sticky portion of this subforum.
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06-02-2014, 08:46 PM
RE: My conversion...
(06-02-2014 03:49 PM)Simon Moon Wrote:  
(06-02-2014 01:41 PM)Drich Wrote:  So tell me 'mom' is your deconversion story also 'mental gymnastics?'

Not even close to being the same.

Deconverting does not require any MAGICAL events.

It only requires the correct application of critical thinking and skepticism to the 'god' claim.
there was nothing magical about my de conversion what are you talking about?
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