My dad never wants to see me again...
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06-02-2017, 01:43 PM
RE: My dad never wants to see me again...
(06-02-2017 01:31 PM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  I'm the father of 2 young sons; or at least 2 human beings born with penises and testicles. Whether this is the gender they ultimately identify with or not remains to be seen. They both seem "all boy" at age 20 months and age 6 years, but who knows?

I'm a liberal guy. I'm for everybody's RIGHT to express their gender, sexuality, or any other attribute in the way they feel most comfortable. But I think there's a big difference between assenting to some concept on the theoretical or societal level, and reacting to it when it appears in your own family. I like to think I would be as open minded and respectful as my children deserve for me to be. But I can understand why other parents might struggle.

In the end your time on this earth with your children is limited. Why waste ANY of it on whether you're each meeting the other's notion of who and what you are? LOVE EACH OTHER!!!

When a child is born, you wish nothing but the best for them. You hope they don't have to struggle unfairly. You hope they're happy and healthy. You hope they're curious and confident, and they make friends well. You hope they're loyal and selfless but also nobody's fool. You try to steer them where you can but you have to trust them enough to let them figure out certain things for themselves. I think the best you can hope for is that they have the confidence in themselves to figure out as much as they can on their own, and the confidence in YOU to be able to come to you for help or perspective if they're overwhelmed by something.

A child's growth and development is an ongoing discovery - it's a learning process for parent and child alike. Every day you discover more and more about your kids. It could be something trivial like they prefer strawberry jam to grape jelly. It could be something monumental like they believe in certain things or they love certain kinds of people. There will always be surprises - some of which may force you a little out of your comfort zone but it's who they ARE. It's all good and meaningful and important.

If one of my sons comes to me one day and reveals that he's gay, or bisexual, or transgender, or some other non-binary gender or sexual expression I can't see how there's any way to take BESIDES being just one more detail about who they are, one more attribute that makes them unique and special and their OWN PERSON! It should all be cause for celebration! But, that doesn't mean it won't take a period of adjustment.

Of all the nefarious tricks religion pulls I think one of the very worst is this notion that we should define who others are, what kind of people they are able to be as the result of some ancient dogma. I can't imagine being so tied to one set of (completely unproven!) philosophical ideas that I would put up a barrier between myself and my children in order to protect the idea. How monstrous!

Yeah, it certainly is much harder when it's someone you love and depend on. For my wife, it was a huge shock, and it rocked her harder than she thought it would. It's taken time for her to adjust. My mother has been adjusting, too. My dad, apparently has refused to do so. I would love to say that I could just come to him and say, "Who cares about our differences, let's just have an actual relationship while we can! You're my dad, after all!" But he refuses me unless I meet him on his conditions. That condition is to bury the real me so he can interact with a ghost of past me. That's a condition I cannot grant. Doing so would be dangerous to me- my own mental state would be challenged to do so. Imagine if you had to pretend to be a woman just to interact with your parents. You know inherently that you aren't a woman, but they won't talk to you unless you dress as a woman and try your hardest to put yourself in the mindset of a woman. It's beyond me to try to be a man again. I can't do it.

So that means that he has to close the gap. I can and have in my life make many many other concessions for him. I can't do that one. Sad
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06-02-2017, 01:45 PM
RE: My dad never wants to see me again...
(06-02-2017 01:41 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(06-02-2017 11:20 AM)Emma Wrote:  Gonna be a bit of a rant. But I want to get this off my chest.

I haven't talked to my father for a year as of last Christmas. The Christmas before we sat in a Starbucks on Marco Island, Florida. And while there we argued about the fact that I'm trans. To him, he'll only ever have a son. No matter what medical, legal, social, or emotional changes take place. He'll never consider me Emma.

We were able to deal with the fact that I'm an atheist. It led to several long debates and discussions about the existence of God. He could handle that, even in his ultra-conservative mind. He's a professor at Liberty University and a former Navy chief, for any who want to know. He's not a stupid man. He's just obstinate and hates LGBTQ people. And he can't deal with the fact that I fall in that acronym.

Lately I've been in the process of updating my documents with my new legal name. I needed a new passport, as that's one of the highest documents you can get to prove your identity in the US. It's ID at the federal level. About a week ago, I texted him to ask him for his DOB and birth place, required for my passport. First time I've really tried opening the lines of communication since the Starbucks blow-up.

More than a week lapsed and then he finally messaged me with this:

This set me off, because I haven't gone anywhere. In fact, I actually did try talking to him once in early 2016 after the Starbucks blow-up. I called him and tried chatting with him, but he was mostly stoic and wouldn't answer but with one or two words. So I gave up. Some fucking "love"...

I replied with:


I had asked my mom for the info. They are long divorced, so I'm lucky she remembered. I had figured my dad was just going to completely ignore me.

He responded with this:


My dad has completely rejected me. Given me a condition that I cannot meet. The old me is gone. He will never return. I didn't stay as the old me for my wife, and I'm sure as fuck not going to do it for my ass-hole of a dad.

I'm careening between wanting to sob and being so angry that I just think of everything I want to say in response. But I think I will let him have that last word. Maybe it will weigh on him over the years. He's the one who loses out in this deal. I'm not missing anything- a dad that forces his will upon me. No. No longer. He's the one who is losing his child. Pushing her away because of his own bigoted beliefs.

Fuck him.

If you do reply to him. I would keep it very short, repeat what he said and say how disappointed you are. You will always love him and will honor his request to stay away. But I wouldn't email him. I would send him a card -- something pretty. Maybe he'll toss it away, but handwritten things are harder to ignore. Also on the return address don't put any name, but do sign the card as Emma.

Because you're correct, he is the one losing a child.

Can I also say as a mom, this kind of shit really upsets me? I'm tempted to ask for his address so I can tell him what an oaf he's behaving like. A parents love should be unconditional and should never have restrictions placed on it regarding gender or sexual orientation.

Hug and Heart

Thank you so much. *hugs* back Smile I think I will eventually send a hand-written card.
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06-02-2017, 02:04 PM (This post was last modified: 06-02-2017 02:07 PM by Mathilda.)
RE: My dad never wants to see me again...
Just remember that your father wants a relationship with someone who isn't you. Someone who he thought existed but who doesn't. If there is to be a relationship with your father, then it must be with the real you. There can be no progress until he accepts this.

I know that you already know this but it's always worthwhile reminding yourself.
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06-02-2017, 02:23 PM
RE: My dad never wants to see me again...
Hi Emma.

It must have been very difficult to feel that your father is rejecting you.

As much as I wish I did, I don't have any timeless, sage advice to offer.

Perhaps in time he will come around. Or perhaps not. Regardless, you have a community of loving friends here.
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06-02-2017, 04:12 PM
RE: My dad never wants to see me again...
I would have responded to his "don't visit me when I'm dying..."
with "You're already dead to me."

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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06-02-2017, 04:47 PM
RE: My dad never wants to see me again...
(06-02-2017 11:20 AM)Emma Wrote:  But I think I will let him have that last word.

This is a good thought. Anything else you might say will likely only hurt both of you more. He knows how to get in touch.

(06-02-2017 01:43 PM)Emma Wrote:  My dad, apparently has refused to do so. I would love to say that I could just come to him and say, "Who cares about our differences, let's just have an actual relationship while we can! You're my dad, after all!"

He may not be capable of that. Everything that you are is a direct challenge to his manhood and his abilities as a parent. It may also be that he is deeply closetted, which would mean that what you are shines a spotlight on everything that he abhors about himself. This is not your fault. It is his inflexibility and incapacity that are to blame. You are what and who you are. If he cannot accept that reality then the problem is his.

You have changed the very basis of your identity but he cannot even change his own mind. I think that I know which of you has the stronger will.

I will respectfully disagree with what a few others have said. Emma clearly does have a father. It wouldn't hurt so much if you didn't. He is a stubborn, broken fool who values his pride over his daughter. I can only hope that he comes to his senses and does not die a lonely and bitter man. Shed a tear for everything he is so senselessly losing. He is unworthy of your anger.

---
Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
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06-02-2017, 05:13 PM
My dad never wants to see me again...
(06-02-2017 04:12 PM)Chas Wrote:  I would have responded to his "don't visit me when I'm dying..."
with "You're already dead to me."


That's a good one. Seriously, the only thing you can do is move on.
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06-02-2017, 06:20 PM (This post was last modified: 06-02-2017 07:49 PM by Anjele.)
RE: My dad never wants to see me again...
I will play devil's advocate here just a bit. Don't hate me for it.

Your father did respond and included the information you asked for. He didn't have to do that. I don't think the door is completely closed. He is a man who thought the had a stereotypical son and he had an image in his mind of the future and where it would lead. Your wife took some time to come around...I am sure it wasn't easy for either of you...I am glad that you have worked things out. Your mother is taking some time adjusting...perhaps your dad needs more time.

Your transition isn't just a big thing for you but it's also a big thing for those in your life...particularly the ones who have been there from the start.

Let some of it just rest...let him see that you are not only the same person he loved before but that you are now also a happier person in your own skin.

He didn't slam the door...just leave it ajar and give it some time.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat
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06-02-2017, 06:20 PM
RE: My dad never wants to see me again...
Emma, I am the mother of a transgender daughter and I think I should tell you about how my husband and I dealt with her being transgender.

I'm not going to lie. It was a shock when she told me. At first I simply didn't accept it and went into denial, so did my husband. We fell apart and both became very depressed. I just wanted the whole thing to go away. There was a lot of tears.

Unless you're a parent it's difficult to understand what a parent feel when they have a baby. No matter who the parent is, even gay parents, have dreams for their children. It's almost impossible NOT to have dreams for your children. You look at them and see their future and imagine them being a teacher or architect or something. It's just a natural part of being a parent. But when a parent sees their children's future it's always kinda wrapped around their gender. It's hard to explain to non parents.

So when a son or daughter tells you that they're not what you always thought they were for 18 years of their life, it's shattering to a parent. Suddenly your mind has to completely come to a halt and reverse itself and think of your son as a daughter or daughter as a son and it's not an easy thing to do.

One thing I learned from reading about other parents who went through this is that it's ok to mourn the loss of the son or daughter. All the memories of a little boy are still swimming around in a parents head, all the photos of a baby boy, all the boy things you remember are different and gone. I still have the little blue baby booties that belonged to my "son" and I can't just throw them away because they're part of her past and part of my memories. I can't un-remember it. But once I allowed myself to mourn the loss of my son, that's when I finally recovered and accepted her. I had to go through that mourning process though. It's very important.

One big difference between my husband and I and your parents is that we are not religious AT ALL. I'm a lifelong atheist and my husband is an agnostic. This allowed us the freedom to be more flexible and not steep ourselves in rigid regulations that require believers to follow only one prescribed path. I don't know what to tell you about this aspect of your father's mind. I have no experience with religious belief.

So I don't know if this has helped you in anyway. It probably hasn't but just realize that parenting is not an easy thing. Maybe give your father some time. Perhaps if he understands the brain similarities of transgender people and their orientation it might help him. I read a few books on the subject and it helped me tremendously.

My husband and I are super proud of our daughter now. It took us a while to get there and it wasn't an easy road but I'd never have it any other way for her. She's a wonderful, fantastic person and happier than I've ever seen her and that makes me happy too.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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06-02-2017, 08:43 PM
RE: My dad never wants to see me again...
As soon as I read the title I was going to say "fuck him" but you beat me to it at the end.
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