My dad never wants to see me again...
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
07-02-2017, 11:25 AM
RE: My dad never wants to see me again...
(07-02-2017 11:02 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(06-02-2017 11:20 AM)Emma Wrote:  I'm careening between wanting to sob and being so angry that I just think of everything I want to say in response. But I think I will let him have that last word.

You're a better woman than I am gunga emma.

Quote:Do not come and visit me when I am dying or dead unless it is as #deadname#

I'd've handed him a bouquet of dead flowers and told him "I guess I should give these to you now then."

I bet you will find that the closer he approaches his inevitable demise and sees the gaping maw of the beckoning void, the more open his mind will become and the more he will regret the things he's said and try to make things right. At least that's what I've seen.

"I bet you will find that the closer he approaches his inevitable demise and sees the gaping maw of the beckoning void, the more open his mind will become and the more he will regret the things he's said and try to make things right. At least that's what I've seen."

Unfortunately it's been the exact opposite in my family. As my father has gotten older, he's become obsessed with trying to make things right with god. Which means in practical terms that his attempts to convert us have become increasingly forceful. Also his anger at us when we don't come to jesus is much hotter.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes julep's post
07-02-2017, 11:32 AM
RE: My dad never wants to see me again...
(07-02-2017 11:25 AM)julep Wrote:  Unfortunately it's been the exact opposite in my family. As my father has gotten older, he's become obsessed with trying to make things right with god. Which means in practical terms that his attempts to convert us have become increasingly forceful. Also his anger at us when we don't come to jesus is much hotter.

I'd tell him, "Worry about yourself, grampa. You have more immediate and pressing concerns than my immortal soul. Like where you left your nitroglycerin tablets to start."

#sigh
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes GirlyMan's post
07-02-2017, 12:10 PM
RE: My dad never wants to see me again...
Emma, I personally have no experiences to guide me or you in this situation other than stay strong and worry about yourself and your wife first. Once that is taken care of, others can accept or not accept. Surround yourself with those that love you for who you are and live a full happy life!

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored- Aldous Huxley
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes devilsadvoc8's post
07-02-2017, 01:02 PM
RE: My dad never wants to see me again...
(07-02-2017 09:20 AM)Emma Wrote:  I think, if my dad ever does come around, it's going to be an incredibly difficult and long battle for him. He's known that I'm trans for two years, now. During the first year that he knew, he spent his time researching reasons why being trans is "bad" and/or "not a real thing". Pointing to chromosomes and other physical characteristics, but really lacking in understanding of what that means (for any who don't know, the whole "sex chromosomes" idea is somewhat sketchy- determining sex is far more complicated than that on a scientific basis, so simple people prefer the simple notion that genitals or chromosomes are the determining factor).

Anyway, he's taken the time to further research reasons to hate and disagree with my transition. He pointed to the faulty Paul McHugh study that suggests that trans people are unhappier after transitioning (completely false). Ugh.

So instead of trying to climb that hill of understanding, he's dug himself a into a deep hole, out of which he will have to climb in order to reach any level of acceptance.

Not impossible, but in two years he's made negative progress. It'll be a long road for him, and he doesn't want my help to get him out.

I want to offer him some empathy, but I'm too hurt to do so. A year ago, even after arguing about all these things in the middle of a Starbucks, I still wanted to believe that he just needed a little more time. I thought he loved me more than this. I thought for sure, if it was his own kid, he'd reach through that bluster of bigotry. He doesn't just need a little more time, he needs a LOT more time.

I've left the door open to him. My wife wanted to block his number so that he couldn't hurt me anymore. But I don't want to block him. There needs to be some avenue he can take to reach me.

In the mean time... I'm just mad. And sad. And I hope that fades because I don't want to feel like this forever.

What people are saying about it being difficult for parents is true. It's also true that good people try to rationalise the behaviour of arseholes. But regardless of whether your dad is an unfortunate product of religion or an arsehole, your Dad has had enough time to process it and instead he's negating everything that you are. He has no excuse anymore. He's asking the impossible of you and believing that he might be able to get you to change back. I'm afraid to say that you need to move on with your life now and accept that he won't be a part of it. If he comes up with that emotional blackmail again about only seeing him on his deathbed as your old name, then all you can do is be honest and reply that it means that you will never see him again.

People split from their parents for all kinds of reasons, not just because they are transgendered. So it's not like your situation is unique in this regard. The most fundamental thing to anyone is to be themselves, to make their own choices, to be seen and treated for who they are for better or for worse. It can be very difficult for cisgendered people to appreciate quite what a struggle it is for someone who can't take something as fundamental to their character as gender for granted. But if you think about it, this is the root cause of harm for all forms of bigotry. People treating you as something that you are not regardless of what you do.

Transitioning is hard enough and requires a lot of faith that after all the pain, risk and loss that you can make it to the other side. You need to remove all forms of negativity from your life that may sap your chance of personal happiness.

I've often argued with people like your dad with regards to what gender is and no matter how many arguments you blow out of the water, they'll still remain unconvinced even though they have nothing left to argue with. This is because they are arguing with their heart and not their heads. They are post-hoc rationalising what they want to believe. He wants to believe that you will change back again. You know that won't happen. The only thing that may win him around is knowing for sure that by following this path he is saying goodbye to you for good.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Mathilda's post
07-02-2017, 01:18 PM
RE: My dad never wants to see me again...
(07-02-2017 11:32 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(07-02-2017 11:25 AM)julep Wrote:  Unfortunately it's been the exact opposite in my family. As my father has gotten older, he's become obsessed with trying to make things right with god. Which means in practical terms that his attempts to convert us have become increasingly forceful. Also his anger at us when we don't come to jesus is much hotter.

I'd tell him, "Worry about yourself, grampa. You have more immediate and pressing concerns than my immortal soul. Like where you left your nitroglycerin tablets to start."

My grandma believed truthfully that because I was on the fence with belief her time in paradise was in jeopardy. She even said that I didn't care about her afterlife. I didn't know how to answer that. I wasn't an atheist at that point, simply questioning. But any questioning is wrong because it might lead to answers that others won't like.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
07-02-2017, 01:23 PM
RE: My dad never wants to see me again...
(07-02-2017 01:02 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(07-02-2017 09:20 AM)Emma Wrote:  I think, if my dad ever does come around, it's going to be an incredibly difficult and long battle for him. He's known that I'm trans for two years, now. During the first year that he knew, he spent his time researching reasons why being trans is "bad" and/or "not a real thing". Pointing to chromosomes and other physical characteristics, but really lacking in understanding of what that means (for any who don't know, the whole "sex chromosomes" idea is somewhat sketchy- determining sex is far more complicated than that on a scientific basis, so simple people prefer the simple notion that genitals or chromosomes are the determining factor).

Anyway, he's taken the time to further research reasons to hate and disagree with my transition. He pointed to the faulty Paul McHugh study that suggests that trans people are unhappier after transitioning (completely false). Ugh.

So instead of trying to climb that hill of understanding, he's dug himself a into a deep hole, out of which he will have to climb in order to reach any level of acceptance.

Not impossible, but in two years he's made negative progress. It'll be a long road for him, and he doesn't want my help to get him out.

I want to offer him some empathy, but I'm too hurt to do so. A year ago, even after arguing about all these things in the middle of a Starbucks, I still wanted to believe that he just needed a little more time. I thought he loved me more than this. I thought for sure, if it was his own kid, he'd reach through that bluster of bigotry. He doesn't just need a little more time, he needs a LOT more time.

I've left the door open to him. My wife wanted to block his number so that he couldn't hurt me anymore. But I don't want to block him. There needs to be some avenue he can take to reach me.

In the mean time... I'm just mad. And sad. And I hope that fades because I don't want to feel like this forever.

What people are saying about it being difficult for parents is true. It's also true that good people try to rationalise the behaviour of arseholes. But regardless of whether your dad is an unfortunate product of religion or an arsehole, your Dad has had enough time to process it and instead he's negating everything that you are. He has no excuse anymore. He's asking the impossible of you and believing that he might be able to get you to change back. I'm afraid to say that you need to move on with your life now and accept that he won't be a part of it. If he comes up with that emotional blackmail again about only seeing him on his deathbed as your old name, then all you can do is be honest and reply that it means that you will never see him again.

People split from their parents for all kinds of reasons, not just because they are transgendered. So it's not like your situation is unique in this regard. The most fundamental thing to anyone is to be themselves, to make their own choices, to be seen and treated for who they are for better or for worse. It can be very difficult for cisgendered people to appreciate quite what a struggle it is for someone who can't take something as fundamental to their character as gender for granted. But if you think about it, this is the root cause of harm for all forms of bigotry. People treating you as something that you are not regardless of what you do.

Transitioning is hard enough and requires a lot of faith that after all the pain, risk and loss that you can make it to the other side. You need to remove all forms of negativity from your life that may sap your chance of personal happiness.

I've often argued with people like your dad with regards to what gender is and no matter how many arguments you blow out of the water, they'll still remain unconvinced even though they have nothing left to argue with. This is because they are arguing with their heart and not their heads. They are post-hoc rationalising what they want to believe. He wants to believe that you will change back again. You know that won't happen. The only thing that may win him around is knowing for sure that by following this path he is saying goodbye to you for good.

Thanks Mathilda, fantastic post! Smile
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
07-02-2017, 01:26 PM
RE: My dad never wants to see me again...
(07-02-2017 01:18 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(07-02-2017 11:32 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I'd tell him, "Worry about yourself, grampa. You have more immediate and pressing concerns than my immortal soul. Like where you left your nitroglycerin tablets to start."

My grandma believed truthfully that because I was on the fence with belief her time in paradise was in jeopardy. She even said that I didn't care about her afterlife. I didn't know how to answer that. I wasn't an atheist at that point, simply questioning. But any questioning is wrong because it might lead to answers that others won't like.

I think it did threaten her afterlife. Your questioning of it made her start questioning it too.

#sigh
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
07-02-2017, 01:37 PM
RE: My dad never wants to see me again...
Be happy and find peace in yourself and your life. If you father can't see far enough past his religious beliefs to realize your happiness is paramount to you then that's his problem not yours.

I'm sorry for the pain you've experienced.

Hug

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like dancefortwo's post
07-02-2017, 01:56 PM
RE: My dad never wants to see me again...
If he only researched as far as what Paul McHugh wrote, then he is being deliberately and willfully blind.

McHugh's ideas about gender have not only been repudiated by additional research, he has personally been disavowed by most of his field, including the university (his former employer) under whose auspices he claimed authority to speak on the subject.

As I'm sure you're aware, there are any number of articles specifically rejecting the ideas of Dr. McHugh, and stating that he is not in line with what we now know. To quote him as "I researched this topic and..." means that he has never looked past Christian fundamentalist and hardcore right-wing websites (who love McHugh) for his "research". That's not just sad, it's both pathetic and dishonest. Any professor or other academic, even at Liberty University, should know better.

I may be leaning now, with Mathilda, toward thinking that any attempt to justify his behavior is making excuses for an awful human being.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like RocketSurgeon76's post
07-02-2017, 02:23 PM
RE: My dad never wants to see me again...
(07-02-2017 01:56 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  If he only researched as far as what Paul McHugh wrote, then he is being deliberately and willfully blind.

McHugh's ideas about gender have not only been repudiated by additional research, he has personally been disavowed by most of his field, including the university (his former employer) under whose auspices he claimed authority to speak on the subject.

As I'm sure you're aware, there are any number of articles specifically rejecting the ideas of Dr. McHugh, and stating that he is not in line with what we now know. To quote him as "I researched this topic and..." means that he has never looked past Christian fundamentalist and hardcore right-wing websites (who love McHugh) for his "research". That's not just sad, it's both pathetic and dishonest. Any professor or other academic, even at Liberty University, should know better.

I may be leaning now, with Mathilda, toward thinking that any attempt to justify his behavior is making excuses for an awful human being.

I'm glad you know about McHugh. It's rare to find. My dad's area of expertise is network security. You'd think he would know better, but as you know, his research was clearly just to give him ammunition and justification for his position from the start. This was apparent as soon as we got into that argument over a year ago on Christmas Eve in Starbucks.

I've come across so many bigotted right-wing assholes who spit McHugh's studies at me as if they have any clue what they are talking about. But because they read a sensationalist newspaper article on him, they think they know all about it. So many newspapers have written articles on his "research", and they extend his reach and credibility every single time they do it without further doing research to find out that his studies are flawed in many ways and his conclusions are in direct contradiction to medical consensus as supported by many more reliable studies.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Emma's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: