My dad's claims
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29-04-2016, 05:02 PM
My dad's claims
Can you guys help me out? My dad ended up talking to me about my unbelief again.

-He said that he has proof of God.

-My dad said that when he was a kid, he once prayed to wake up at midnight and it happened.

-He has had dreams where God let's him know he's real. (Not reliable.)

-When he used to smoke, he tried to quit on his own, but was having a hard time. The longest he went was 3 months. After he prayed, he had no desire to smoke. (FYI: this was before I was born.)

-People have come just at the right time to help him with things like the car messing up.

-He tried to bring up how people found Noah's Ark when I know thats a hoax.

- I'm sure he thinks satan is trying to deceive me

- He said that I shouldn't just stop believing in the Bible when I'm confused about something

Stuff like that. I'm not good at talking and I get very nervous. Sometimes, things come down to faith, which isn't a convincing argument to me.

I know he wants me to be 'saved,' but I can't make myself believe the God of the bible. I don't find the god of the Bible convincing.

He wants me to ask God to let me know he's there. What do you guys think I should do? It's frustrating because the things I gave Yahweh credit for still happen to me now as an atheist.

The good thing is that he said he wouldn't kick me out.
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29-04-2016, 05:32 PM
RE: My dad's claims
All of those things that your dad listed as proof are subjective in nature. None of them are objectively varifiable. If you want to be respectful, you could say something like I don't deny that you had these experiences I just question your interpretations of these events. Do you think it's possible that you are interpreting these events to fit what you want to believe? Confirmation bias is something that must be guarded against religiously. No pun intended.

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29-04-2016, 05:55 PM
RE: My dad's claims
(29-04-2016 05:02 PM)CosmicRaven Wrote:  Can you guys help me out? My dad ended up talking to me about my unbelief again.

-He said that he has proof of God.

-My dad said that when he was a kid, he once prayed to wake up at midnight and it happened.

-He has had dreams where God let's him know he's real. (Not reliable.)

-When he used to smoke, he tried to quit on his own, but was having a hard time. The longest he went was 3 months. After he prayed, he had no desire to smoke. (FYI: this was before I was born.)

-People have come just at the right time to help him with things like the car messing up.

-He tried to bring up how people found Noah's Ark when I know thats a hoax.

- I'm sure he thinks satan is trying to deceive me

- He said that I shouldn't just stop believing in the Bible when I'm confused about something

Stuff like that. I'm not good at talking and I get very nervous. Sometimes, things come down to faith, which isn't a convincing argument to me.

I know he wants me to be 'saved,' but I can't make myself believe the God of the bible. I don't find the god of the Bible convincing.

He wants me to ask God to let me know he's there. What do you guys think I should do? It's frustrating because the things I gave Yahweh credit for still happen to me now as an atheist.

The good thing is that he said he wouldn't kick me out.

Congrats on not getting thrown out.

Ask God to let you know that he's there. Do it thoroughly and sincerely and openly in front of your father. He'll have no complaint then. If The AllMighty manifests on your behalf then you're a step ahead of the rest of us. If not then you and your dad will know who didn't return your call. The ball's in God's court where it will likely remain until the sun burns out.

Your dad has the usual mix of anecdotal evidence and selection bias, aka 'It was a miracle I survived that car crash.' Anecdotal evidence isn't proof of anything because it can't be experienced by anybody except the person it happened to. To the rest of us it quite simply isn't evident.

Incidentally, your dad has some really flimsy criteria for "evidence". I can wake up to within 5 minutes of a desired time pretty regularly. It's nothing more Divine than a well-adjusted internal clock. I routinely wake 5 minutes before my alarm goes off, which is nice because then I don't have to suffer its infernal bleating. If this is his proof of God then he really needs to upgrade his Deity. Sounds like he's still running God Vista.

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29-04-2016, 05:58 PM
RE: My dad's claims
Tell your dad very sincerely and in a soft tone this:
Dad, I don't have sincere desire to pray to God. If I pray to Him without sincere desire He will NOT answer to me.
Dad, if you know how I can have this desire, please, tell me.
may be he will understand that it doesn't work the way he wants. Let me know what he said.

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29-04-2016, 06:02 PM
RE: My dad's claims
quote Wrote:The good thing is that he said he wouldn't kick me out.
This is great. Tell him that you appreciate this very much.

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29-04-2016, 06:20 PM
RE: My dad's claims
(29-04-2016 05:58 PM)Alla Wrote:  Tell your dad very sincerely and in a soft tone this:
Dad, I don't have sincere desire to pray to God. If I pray to Him without sincere desire He will NOT answer to me.

Alla, you have a nack for making God sound like a complete pillock.

Cosmic, ask your dad to pray with you. It can't hurt, will act as a bonding experience and your dad will know that his efforts were sincere. I'm unwilling to believe in a god so petty that he won't speak to nonbelievers but on the off chance that he exists he's unworthy of anything more than scorn.

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29-04-2016, 06:20 PM (This post was last modified: 29-04-2016 06:28 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: My dad's claims
(29-04-2016 05:58 PM)Alla Wrote:  Tell your dad very sincerely and in a soft tone this:
Dad, I don't have sincere desire to pray to God. If I pray to Him without sincere desire He will NOT answer to me.
Dad, if you know how I can have this desire, please, tell me.
may be he will understand that it doesn't work the way he wants. Let me know what he said.

That is excellent advice. I'm not sure but I think in many religions that pray an insincere prayer constitutes blasphemy. No? Tell him you will burn in hell if you pray and aren't sincere.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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29-04-2016, 06:21 PM
RE: My dad's claims
One thing I often bring up to my parents who also have faith claims and stories are any and all anecdotal stories that seem fantastical. There was a man on TV when I was living in Oklahoma as a teen who swore he was attacked by Bigfoot, my parents laughed at him. I've brought up alien visitations to them and ghost sightings, etc. but they always seem highly skeptical.

I would ask your dad a few questions:

How many dreams have you had in your life? Probably thousands, how many were real? How many times did you have a real conversation with a real person that they can confirm actually took place? If this has never occurred why believe any dream where you talked to God is real?

You almost never hear of these stories from atheists or skeptics, why is that?

Why are good Christians always getting possessed by demons but atheists don't?

Does he believe people who say they were attacked by Bigfoot? Or abducted by aliens? Why not? Is it because he needs proof or something tangible?

If someone stopped smoking after they visited a shrine dedicated to Buddha and meditated for an hour and then suddenly felt no desire at all to smoke again does that make Buddhism the one true religion?

If he truly feels Satan is deceiving you why doesn't he pray to God to influence you instead and stop Satan? Is his faith not strong enough to convince him? Does God not care?

I was told by a Vietnamese friend of mine that when she was growing up in Vietnam many people had ghost stories but she was afraid of seeing one and was told by her parents that it was ok, that only people who believe in ghosts can see them so she tried her best to dismiss the stories. This is true for pretty much any belief, if you are sincere you will experience some extraordinary events just because your brain wanted you to believe it.

I swear I heard Santa Claus enter my home as a child and leave presents beneath our Xmas tree, I even heard a low "Ho, ho, ho" as he left. I believed this because I thought Santa was real, I don't anymore so I don't believe I did hear him that night. The mind is an amazing thing and it can fill in gaps and create fantasies to protect us from pain, that is what your dad is experiencing and since many other people agree with him it's even more powerful and basically a shared delusion at this point.

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29-04-2016, 06:38 PM
RE: My dad's claims
(29-04-2016 06:21 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  One thing I often bring up to my parents who also have faith claims and stories are any and all anecdotal stories that seem fantastical. There was a man on TV when I was living in Oklahoma as a teen who swore he was attacked by Bigfoot, my parents laughed at him. I've brought up alien visitations to them and ghost sightings, etc. but they always seem highly skeptical.

I would ask your dad a few questions:

How many dreams have you had in your life? Probably thousands, how many were real? How many times did you have a real conversation with a real person that they can confirm actually took place? If this has never occurred why believe any dream where you talked to God is real?

You almost never hear of these stories from atheists or skeptics, why is that?

Why are good Christians always getting possessed by demons but atheists don't?

Does he believe people who say they were attacked by Bigfoot? Or abducted by aliens? Why not? Is it because he needs proof or something tangible?

If someone stopped smoking after they visited a shrine dedicated to Buddha and meditated for an hour and then suddenly felt no desire at all to smoke again does that make Buddhism the one true religion?

If he truly feels Satan is deceiving you why doesn't he pray to God to influence you instead and stop Satan? Is his faith not strong enough to convince him? Does God not care?

I was told by a Vietnamese friend of mine that when she was growing up in Vietnam many people had ghost stories but she was afraid of seeing one and was told by her parents that it was ok, that only people who believe in ghosts can see them so she tried her best to dismiss the stories. This is true for pretty much any belief, if you are sincere you will experience some extraordinary events just because your brain wanted you to believe it.

I swear I heard Santa Claus enter my home as a child and leave presents beneath our Xmas tree, I even heard a low "Ho, ho, ho" as he left. I believed this because I thought Santa was real, I don't anymore so I don't believe I did hear him that night. The mind is an amazing thing and it can fill in gaps and create fantasies to protect us from pain, that is what your dad is experiencing and since many other people agree with him it's even more powerful and basically a shared delusion at this point.

The bit about hearing Santa was interesting. It is true that our brains fill in gaps.

My dad did say that he's praying for me. I just say okay or thanks when someone tells me that. Whatever helps them sleep at night.

I don't think Yahweh cares about the mentally ill. I know I don't always think straight. Some people are worse than me. It would be really helpful if he could help us know what is real and what's not.
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29-04-2016, 06:51 PM
RE: My dad's claims
(29-04-2016 06:38 PM)CosmicRaven Wrote:  My dad did say that he's praying for me. I just say okay or thanks when someone tells me that. Whatever helps them sleep at night.

It says in the Bible that god answers all prayers. If your dad is asking for god to make you believe in him again (kinda goes against free will Consider ) and you don’t then ask your dad which of the following applies:

1) Your father’s prayers weren’t sincere in the eyes of his god.
2) Your dad’s god answered them but in the negative.
3) Your dad’s god is powerless to change your mind.
4) Satan is more powerful than his god.
4) Your dad’s god doesn’t exist.

That ought to be an interesting conversation.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
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