My dad's claims
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29-04-2016, 06:55 PM
RE: My dad's claims
(29-04-2016 06:21 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  How many dreams have you had in your life? Probably thousands, how many were real? How many times did you have a real conversation with a real person that they can confirm actually took place? If this has never occurred why believe any dream where you talked to God is real?

You almost never hear of these stories from atheists or skeptics, why is that?

Well, in all honesty, if God had a chat with me that I believed was anything more than a dream I likely wouldn't be an atheist.

Quote:Why are good Christians always getting possessed by demons but atheists don't?

I take my meds. Funny how some very simple drugs keep Satan at bay but maybe it's true and Big Pharma really is in league with the devil. I'm vaguely disappointed that I missed the boat for messing with Q's head on this point.

Quote:I swear I heard Santa Claus enter my home as a child and leave presents beneath our Xmas tree, I even heard a low "Ho, ho, ho" as he left. I believed this because I thought Santa was real, I don't anymore so I don't believe I did hear him that night.

Not to mess with your suspension of belief but are you sure this wasn't your parents? It isn't an uncommon ploy so you may well have actually heard something. Just not Santa.

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29-04-2016, 07:02 PM
RE: My dad's claims
(29-04-2016 06:51 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(29-04-2016 06:38 PM)CosmicRaven Wrote:  My dad did say that he's praying for me. I just say okay or thanks when someone tells me that. Whatever helps them sleep at night.

It says in the Bible that god answers all prayers. If your dad is asking for god to make you believe in him again (kinda goes against free will Consider ) and you don’t then ask your dad which of the following applies:

1) Your father’s prayers weren’t sincere in the eyes of his god.
2) Your dad’s god answered them but in the negative.
3) Your dad’s god is powerless to change your mind.
4) Satan is more powerful than his god.
4) Your dad’s god doesn’t exist.

That ought to be an interesting conversation.

Interesting, possibly in the Ancient Chinese Curse sense of the word. Keep in ind that the objective here is to get your father to accept you as a passingly decent human being, not to convert him. FC's point is excellent but it's a direct challenge to your father's faith. That's about as diplomatic as a swift kick in the nuts. Handy in some occasions but only likely to provoke a nasty argument in this setting. Your dad will already have more than his shares of doubts and worries, no need to add more.

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29-04-2016, 07:04 PM
RE: My dad's claims
(29-04-2016 07:02 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  
(29-04-2016 06:51 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  It says in the Bible that god answers all prayers. If your dad is asking for god to make you believe in him again (kinda goes against free will Consider ) and you don’t then ask your dad which of the following applies:

1) Your father’s prayers weren’t sincere in the eyes of his god.
2) Your dad’s god answered them but in the negative.
3) Your dad’s god is powerless to change your mind.
4) Satan is more powerful than his god.
4) Your dad’s god doesn’t exist.

That ought to be an interesting conversation.

Interesting, possibly in the Ancient Chinese Curse sense of the word. Keep in ind that the objective here is to get your father to accept you as a passingly decent human being, not to convert him. FC's point is excellent but it's a direct challenge to your father's faith. That's about as diplomatic as a swift kick in the nuts. Handy in some occasions but only likely to provoke a nasty argument in this setting. Your dad will already have more than his shares of doubts and worries, no need to add more.

Yes you’re right Paleo, I should have said somewhere “don’t try this at home”.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
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29-04-2016, 07:05 PM (This post was last modified: 29-04-2016 07:14 PM by SitaSky.)
RE: My dad's claims
(29-04-2016 06:55 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  I take my meds. Funny how some very simple drugs keep Satan at bay but maybe it's true and Big Pharma really is in league with the devil. I'm vaguely disappointed that I missed the boat for messing with Q's head on this point.

Oh that would've been fun, my parents really believed in possession, not a good thing to tell a kid about but any Xian can say "Possession only happens to believers because God hate's it and Satan thinks is sooo funny!" Oh Satan! You're so silly! If they do say this which my parents have, I always say "What is the point of being filled with faith and love for the lord if it can't protect you from possession?" That should be one of the main selling points of having faith.

(29-04-2016 06:55 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  Not to mess with your suspension of belief but are you sure this wasn't your parents? It isn't an uncommon ploy so you may well have actually heard something. Just not Santa.

Oh I'm sure it was my parents, I remember staying up just straining my ears, trying to hear something, anything. I'm sure my dad got up and went into the garage and got all the presents out. Maybe his laugh was to himself because he totally didn't get the Babysitter's Club doll that I wanted, I mean I only wanted that one thing...Santa would've gotten it, that's how I knew.

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29-04-2016, 08:59 PM
RE: My dad's claims
(29-04-2016 06:20 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(29-04-2016 05:58 PM)Alla Wrote:  Tell your dad very sincerely and in a soft tone this:
Dad, I don't have sincere desire to pray to God. If I pray to Him without sincere desire He will NOT answer to me.
Dad, if you know how I can have this desire, please, tell me.
may be he will understand that it doesn't work the way he wants. Let me know what he said.

That is excellent advice. I'm not sure but I think in many religions that pray an insincere prayer constitutes blasphemy. No? Tell him you will burn in hell if you pray and aren't sincere.
According to LDS Doctrine insincere prayer is not blasphemy. Insincere prayer will not be answered.
Insincere prayer doesn't bring Spirit.

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29-04-2016, 09:01 PM
RE: My dad's claims
(29-04-2016 07:05 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  
(29-04-2016 06:55 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  I take my meds. Funny how some very simple drugs keep Satan at bay but maybe it's true and Big Pharma really is in league with the devil. I'm vaguely disappointed that I missed the boat for messing with Q's head on this point.

Oh that would've been fun, my parents really believed in possession, not a good thing to tell a kid about but any Xian can say "Possession only happens to believers because God hate's it and Satan thinks is sooo funny!" Oh Satan! You're so silly! If they do say this which my parents have, I always say "What is the point of being filled with faith and love for the lord if it can't protect you from possession?" That should be one of the main selling points of having faith.

Possession only happens to believers?!? WTF?!? Satan is too damned lazy to pick some of us low-hanging fruit? Fucking slacker. I swear, if I end up in hell I'm taking over and right now that's sounding like less of a challenge.

Quote:Oh I'm sure it was my parents, I remember staying up just straining my ears, trying to hear something, anything. I'm sure my dad got up and went into the garage and got all the presents out. Maybe his laugh was to himself because he totally didn't get the Babysitter's Club doll that I wanted, I mean I only wanted that one thing...Santa would've gotten it, that's how I knew.

I have a friend whose father gets up on the roof and makes thumping and bumping noises, then leaves hoofprints and sleigh runner tracks in the snow in the backyard.

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29-04-2016, 09:12 PM
RE: My dad's claims
(29-04-2016 08:59 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(29-04-2016 06:20 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  That is excellent advice. I'm not sure but I think in many religions that pray an insincere prayer constitutes blasphemy. No? Tell him you will burn in hell if you pray and aren't sincere.
According to LDS Doctrine insincere prayer is not blasphemy. Insincere prayer will not be answered.
Insincere prayer doesn't bring Spirit.
Thanks.

#sigh
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29-04-2016, 09:14 PM
RE: My dad's claims
(29-04-2016 05:02 PM)CosmicRaven Wrote:  -He tried to bring up how people found Noah's Ark when I know that's a hoax.

WHICH people found WHICH Noah's Ark?

Are we talking about the 2010 Chinese expedition? The Turkish government's site at Dogubayazit? The Haji Yearam site which scientists supposedly destroyed in 1916? Cornuke's 2006 find? Ron Wyatt's find at Durupinar? Something else?

The current count of found Arks is up to.... 27, I think? That's what my memory's telling me but I can't source the number. The above 5 are listed on Rational Wiki but I'm pretty sure there's more than that.

It seems that EVERY expedition that goes out to find the Ark succeeds in finding it, in a different place than the LAST Ark that the LAST expedition found. If any of them is the real one, which is it and how could we tell? Are any of them the real one? Even if we assumed that there was a real Ark, maybe all of these are frauds and the real Ark won't be found for another 20 expeditions.... all of which will claim to have found the real Ark. And if there wasn't a real Ark... well, all of these would still be frauds.
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30-04-2016, 07:03 AM
RE: My dad's claims
(29-04-2016 05:58 PM)Alla Wrote:  Tell your dad very sincerely and in a soft tone this:
Dad, I don't have sincere desire to pray to God. If I pray to Him without sincere desire He will NOT answer to me.
Dad, if you know how I can have this desire, please, tell me.
may be he will understand that it doesn't work the way he wants. Let me know what he said.

That's not why it won't answer. It won't answer because it doesn't exist. that's a very convenient dodge. Well you weren't really sincere so that's why he didn't answer. Or Maybe it doesn't exist. It seems that this god is pretty indistinguishable from something that is merely a product of the imagination. The believer has to do all the work. First one has to imagine this god and then one must pretend that it has answered prayers. When the prayers aren't answered then it"s the believers fault or it just wasn't "God's will".

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30-04-2016, 07:31 AM
RE: My dad's claims
(29-04-2016 06:51 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(29-04-2016 06:38 PM)CosmicRaven Wrote:  My dad did say that he's praying for me. I just say okay or thanks when someone tells me that. Whatever helps them sleep at night.

It says in the Bible that god answers all prayers. If your dad is asking for god to make you believe in him again (kinda goes against free will Consider ) and you don’t then ask your dad which of the following applies:

1) Your father’s prayers weren’t sincere in the eyes of his god.
2) Your dad’s god answered them but in the negative.
3) Your dad’s god is powerless to change your mind.
4) Satan is more powerful than his god.
4) Your dad’s god doesn’t exist.

That ought to be an interesting conversation.

Also a conversation that will get someone kicked out of their home. Banhammered.
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