My dad's claims
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03-05-2016, 09:04 AM
RE: My dad's claims
If god existed, it would be easy for him to show he exists. If I said I was visited by aliens that nobody else could see or hear, everyone would think I am crazy. Now, if I backed it up with "Look at the spacecraft and warp engine they showed me how to build.". If I actually had one, that would be proof that I got the information from somewhere. Now, couple it with the fact that I would have no way of coming up with it myself. There would be excellent proof. If god existed, he/she/it would know exactly what proof would be required. For me, it would be something that brakes the laws of physics as I know them. It could be as simple as freezing time for everyone but me and let me leave my own evidence after we talk. Also, he could take me back to a disaster that happened, such as Pompeii, The Titanic, etc and let me save one person of my own choice to bring back to my time. Really anything that violates physics and I would be happy, unless I can clearly tell it is being done with technology.
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03-05-2016, 09:14 AM
RE: My dad's claims
(03-05-2016 08:02 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  
(03-05-2016 07:00 AM)Dark Wanderer Wrote:  i would rather kiss ass than suffer for eternity. why would you choose otherwise? pride? that would be little comfort as satan pours fire ants into your pee hole forever. or whatever people think goes on in hell.

I guess you never watched the Twilight Zone? The character in one of the episodes Anthony Freemont is a sick sadistic bastard that has the powers of god. He hears your thoughts and you better only think nice things about him, especially when he does something cruel. If not, he will turn you into whatever he wants or wish you away to the cornfield (hell). I the god of the bible exists, it is exactly how I picture heaven. I would rather go to hell thanks.

you offend me sir! i love the twilight zone! i imagine heaven like that but with one slight difference. you arent even capable of having any ''bad'' thoughts. yeah, it would be pointless but it would be better than hell which i imagine to be worse. thats the thing with made up bullshit, you can imagine it however you want.
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03-05-2016, 09:55 AM
RE: My dad's claims
(02-05-2016 03:54 PM)PsychTheist Wrote:  It isn't possible for a person to prove God is real.
Precisely. No more or less so than you can prove that leprechauns do not exist.

Quote:God can prove it to you through experiences that you know shouldn't have happened.
Nope. I challenge you to cite one single experience in your lifetime that "shouldn't have happened". You can't. QED.

Quote:People don't usually just start believing in God because someone told them to either.
Yes they do; all of them. In the majority of cases the children of theist parents are told by those parents that the Christian god exists, and because of their childish naivety, a lack of fully developed processes of logic, and an absolute trust in their parents' word, they believe that to be the case. When babies are born, their minds are the classic clean slate, ready to be writ large upon by all and sundry—including delusional parents, preachers etc.

Quote:As for things happening as an atheist, God doesn't stop working because you don't believe. I've been there once too.
Nonsense. Sorry. The Christian god (and all of the other 22,000 gods) are only mythical figures manufactured thousands of years ago by unscientific people who had virtually no knowledge of the workings of nature and the sciences. The desert nomads who cobbled the bible together over centuries actually thought that the sun and the moon both moved across the sky above a stationary planet (Earth), with each following or preceding the other LOL.

Quote:Tell your dad that it may be proof for him but that you need proof that fits you not him.
No, no, no... this is totally flawed. CosmicRaven is not and should not be asking for any "proof" of a supernatural entity's existence from his dad. It's a totally pointless request because there is no sustainable proof that will "fit" him (whatever that means?). Effectively feeding his dad's delusion will only make matters worse for CosmicRaven.

Quote:I trust that God can do so without people having to bug you about it.
This is thinly disguised proselytising. Not on my friend.

I also note that you presume to patronise us atheists—as do many Christians. "I am a Christian and I don't look down on any of you!" and "Many atheists are kind people that strive to do good in their communities" is the giveaway here. Both of these earlier comments of yours prompt me to say. "Gee, that's really big of you"—with my tongue very firmly planted in my cheek of course.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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03-05-2016, 11:04 AM
RE: My dad's claims
(03-05-2016 09:14 AM)Dark Wanderer Wrote:  
(03-05-2016 08:02 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  I guess you never watched the Twilight Zone? The character in one of the episodes Anthony Freemont is a sick sadistic bastard that has the powers of god. He hears your thoughts and you better only think nice things about him, especially when he does something cruel. If not, he will turn you into whatever he wants or wish you away to the cornfield (hell). I the god of the bible exists, it is exactly how I picture heaven. I would rather go to hell thanks.

you offend me sir! i love the twilight zone! i imagine heaven like that but with one slight difference. you arent even capable of having any ''bad'' thoughts. yeah, it would be pointless but it would be better than hell which i imagine to be worse. thats the thing with made up bullshit, you can imagine it however you want.

If you are not capable of every thought you can have now, then you are no longer you.
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03-05-2016, 12:12 PM
RE: My dad's claims
(03-05-2016 05:55 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  Even if you died today and found out god is real and had a chance to accept, there is still a choice. I would have to say, "Are all the stories in the bible true?" "Or are they made up by people?". If the stories were all true, it would be a no brainer. I would not love or accept that god. If I am more moral than he/she/it is, then I would not be willing to spend eternity kissing little Anthony Freemont's ass, or more appropriately only thinking good thoughts. After all, the bible may be a test to see who is willing to throw away their morals to follow an evil book.

I agree, it would be an easy choice even if you don't have a clear idea of what this "outer darkness" is but if this god could explain that no the stories in the bible are not true and they were made up by immoral men who just wanted to control people and he never stepped in because he thought it would be a valuable test then we can agree on something at least. If he actually did devise the Eden forbidden fruit test, flood the Earth, sacrifice his mortal son, etc. there is nothing more to discuss. He's not worthy of worship or respect at that point and so not worthy to even demand us to make a choice to begin with.

Even the description of Heaven is weak and concerning. The one thing I've always been told is that you praise god all day, why would this be a good thing? For us? I'd rather reject him to his face if he's just about being praised all the time than respecting me as a free will agent who has tried to be a good person by rejecting his religion. That is the moral decision rather than being wipe of all personality and put a leash forever.

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03-05-2016, 01:02 PM
RE: My dad's claims
(03-05-2016 09:55 AM)SYZ Wrote:  
Quote:God can prove it to you through experiences that you know shouldn't have happened.
Nope. I challenge you to cite one single experience in your lifetime that "shouldn't have happened". You can't. QED.
I had a point where I only $20 after paying bills. I had $45 of upcoming bills in the next 12 days. That day, I was worried about money but I decided to let God handle it. I later talked to someone who really needed that $20 more that me, and I figured I already wasn't going to be able to pay the bills anyway. Next day I had a letter in the mail from the State Auditor saying I had unclaimed money. It turned out to be over $600 from paying an insurance premium, my car had been totaled months after I bought it. The accident happened six years before I got the letter. I should have gotten the refund back then, but they got one of the numbers wrong on the address. Back then I was in good health and had plenty of money, but it came when I really needed it. I have plenty of things that happened similarly. But that is all proof meant for me, not for you.

Quote:People don't usually just start believing in God because someone told them to either.
Yes they do; all of them. In the majority of cases the children of theist parents are told by those parents that the Christian god exists, and because of their childish naivety, a lack of fully developed processes of logic, and an absolute trust in their parents' word, they believe that to be the case. When babies are born, their minds are the classic clean slate, ready to be writ large upon by all and sundry—including delusional parents, preachers etc.
The lead singer of Korn has a really excellent story. You should listen to it sometime. Also, I'm not talking about people in church already, I'm talking about people don't believe, like the context of the post. Someone has probably told you to believe in God and you don't. I was saying that her dad telling her to when she doesn't want to is not what makes someone believe.

Quote:As for things happening as an atheist, God doesn't stop working because you don't believe. I've been there once too.
Nonsense. Sorry. The Christian god (and all of the other 22,000 gods) are only mythical figures manufactured thousands of years ago by unscientific people who had virtually no knowledge of the workings of nature and the sciences. The desert nomads who cobbled the bible together over centuries actually thought that the sun and the moon both moved across the sky above a stationary planet (Earth), with each following or preceding the other LOL.
I get it you're an atheist. The post said that the same things happened even though they quit believing. I was simply pointing out the Christian answer, which is that God doesn't stop doing things just because someone stops believing.

Quote:Tell your dad that it may be proof for him but that you need proof that fits you not him.
No, no, no... this is totally flawed. CosmicRaven is not and should not be asking for any "proof" of a supernatural entity's existence from his dad. It's a totally pointless request because there is no sustainable proof that will "fit" him (whatever that means?). Effectively feeding his dad's delusion will only make matters worse for CosmicRaven.
The dad said these 'proofs' happened to him. I'm not saying to ask, I'm saying that they would need the proof to happen in their life, not their father's for it to be believable. And no where did I say "from his dad", his dad implied that the proof came from God, ergo proof for anyone should come from God.

Quote:I trust that God can do so without people having to bug you about it.
This is thinly disguised proselytizing. Not on my friend.
I'm sorry if that is how you read things, but that is definitely not what it is. I was politely saying people who believe in God shouldn't bug people constantly about it. It seemed clear that that the father had done so many times. As for me and my trust, it has nothing to do with anyone here.

I also note that you presume to patronise us atheists—as do many Christians. "I am a Christian and I don't look down on any of you!" and "Many atheists are kind people that strive to do good in their communities" is the giveaway here. Both of these earlier comments of yours prompt me to say. "Gee, that's really big of you"—with my tongue very firmly planted in my cheek of course.
That was in response to what I thought was a hateful post from a so called "Christian", I didn't realize it was an atheist making fun of Christians. I never patronize, I meant what I said. It isn't uncommon for Christians, or anyone else, to be ill-informed an hateful towards atheists. I get tired of Christians who are mean and hateful to people. I'm sorry that you live in a world where you see kindness as an insult.
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03-05-2016, 01:41 PM
RE: My dad's claims
(03-05-2016 11:04 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  
(03-05-2016 09:14 AM)Dark Wanderer Wrote:  you offend me sir! i love the twilight zone! i imagine heaven like that but with one slight difference. you arent even capable of having any ''bad'' thoughts. yeah, it would be pointless but it would be better than hell which i imagine to be worse. thats the thing with made up bullshit, you can imagine it however you want.

If you are not capable of every thought you can have now, then you are no longer you.

That is true. I didn't say it made any sense. None of it does, really.
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03-05-2016, 02:52 PM
RE: My dad's claims
(03-05-2016 01:41 PM)Dark Wanderer Wrote:  
(03-05-2016 11:04 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  If you are not capable of every thought you can have now, then you are no longer you.

That is true. I didn't say it made any sense. None of it does, really.

You said that you would rather kiss ass than go to hell. I am saying that if heaven is like you describe, it really isn't you there. I do agree it is silly to argue over something that doesn't exist anyway.
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03-05-2016, 02:56 PM
RE: My dad's claims
(03-05-2016 02:52 PM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  
(03-05-2016 01:41 PM)Dark Wanderer Wrote:  That is true. I didn't say it made any sense. None of it does, really.

You said that you would rather kiss ass than go to hell. I am saying that if heaven is like you describe, it really isn't you there. I do agree it is silly to argue over something that doesn't exist anyway.

Any alternative is better than I hell, I'm saying. Even losing your own identity.
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03-05-2016, 02:58 PM
RE: My dad's claims
(03-05-2016 02:56 PM)Dark Wanderer Wrote:  
(03-05-2016 02:52 PM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  You said that you would rather kiss ass than go to hell. I am saying that if heaven is like you describe, it really isn't you there. I do agree it is silly to argue over something that doesn't exist anyway.

Any alternative is better than I hell, I'm saying. Even losing your own identity.

I think I would rather take hell, over praising an evil god figure.
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