My daughter's grandparents want to send her to vacation bible school
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13-06-2016, 12:16 PM
RE: My daughter's grandparents want to send her to vacation bible school
(12-06-2016 02:38 PM)Fireball Wrote:  Wow. Sounds like they need supervised visits. If they persist in calling your daughter directly with the religious pressure, I personally would figure out a way to keep that from happening. Good luck with a workable solution.

^^^This!

If they want to talk to her then let them talk, on the speaker phone with you there. She needs a barrier as they've proven they are not only willing but prefer to circumvent you. That's some bad shit there. Sad

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13-06-2016, 03:18 PM
RE: My daughter's grandparents want to send her to vacation bible school
(12-06-2016 02:29 PM)Ash Wrote:  I told them that they upset her, and that I thought it was inappropriate for them to guilt her into doing something by invoking her mother. They were shocked that I thought this, of course, and said they were only expressing their feelings and concerns, and they weren't trying to guilt her at all.
And this is one of the principal faults of these god-botherers—it's ultimately all about them and their feelings and opinions, and fuck everybody else's.

Quote:Of course they called back today, and asked if they could take her to church with them every Sunday.
Absolutely NO to this Ash. It's the thin end of the wedge.

Quote:They said they'd drive up here to pick her up Saturday evenings, and then drive her back home after church on Sundays.
I have to say their persistence is somewhat disturbing. It sounds as though they're prepared to do literally anything to get her "into their clutches". Which is why you need to firmly resist their attempts.

Quote:I just flat out said no.
Best thing you could've done under the circumstances mate.

Quote:I'm thinking of telling her if they ever force her to do something she doesn't like, to call her other grandma (the best option, because my mother is a forced to be reckoned with) or one of her Aunts or Great Aunt (all of whom live near her grandparents) to come and pick her up, and then call me once they've done so.
Good idea, but it could go pear-shaped considering that while your daughter is under the care of her grandparents, they'll potentially have a very controlling influence on what they let her do or not do—which is a worry. It could be difficult for an 11-year-old, even a sensible and determined one, to resist the ongoing pressure from a couple of single-minded adults. Especially religious zealots trying to entrap another sheep to the fold.

It could also be the case that your other female rellos would/could feel uncomfortable stepping into the fray on your behalf. They may not want to be seen as siding with "the enemy" by your daughter's grandparents?

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13-06-2016, 03:41 PM
RE: My daughter's grandparents want to send her to vacation bible school
(09-06-2016 08:26 AM)Ash Wrote:  Yesterday, my oldest daughter's grandparents (on her mother's side obviously) said that they wanted her to come and stay with them for a week and go to vacation bible school. They didn't ask last year (which was the first year I even knew she existed), but they're asking this year.

Right off the bat I'm against it for a couple of reasons: #1. I think there's better things to learn about than "Jesus". Seems like a total waste of time. and #2. I don't want to lose time with my daughter. I mean I just found out about her last year, and she's already 11, almost 12.

I told them that I'd have to talk to my wife about it. (They don't know we're atheists. It's never really come up. I don't think they'd fight me for custody, but I'm a little worried they could if they found out we're atheists given their Christianity.)

I asked my daughter if she wanted to go. I mean ultimately I wanted the decision to be up to her. My wife agreed. I mean as much as I didn't want her to go, if she wanted to go I wasn't going to stop her. She said she didn't want to go. As far as I can tell, she doesn't believe in God anymore. Of course I don't tell her grandparents this. They'd probably just see it as her being angry at god because her mom died. Anyway, I call them back to tell them that she said she doesn't want to go, but that we'd try to find a good time for her to spend with them (As my wife said, NOT during that week, because they'd probably send her against her will). They didn't want to accept that, so they asked to speak to her. She told them that she didn't want to go. They tried to bribe her. She still didn't want to go.

Then they call me back this morning, telling me that I need to send her because it's important for her to get saved, and know Jesus. "Sometimes parents have to make kids do things they don't want to in order to save them." Apparently her mother sent her to this vacation bible school (my daughter says it was only because it's free daycare and her parents wouldn't stop pestering her about it).

I'm not sure how--or even if I can--to get them to stop pushing this. My daughter doesn't want to go. Honestly I don't think she should go. Especially not against her will. They don't seem to be taking no for an answer. This hasn't been a problem before. They're really set on this. (They're very religious people. They even bought her this hideous bible for girls that makes me want to puke. You should see it, it's awful. I mean you'd think at least they'd take out all the rampant sexism, but nope.) They're nice people outside their faith, but they consider it VERY important. I told them that I wasn't going to send her if she didn't want to go, and that ultimately it's up to her. Then they bribed me! They have this idea in their head, and I don't think they're going to drop it. They keep bringing up how I didn't let her go to Christmas Mass with them. Right now I've got my phone off, hoping they'll get the message. I'm not sure they will though.

Ultimately it is up to you, not them. Personally I wouldn't do it because I don''t think kids should be taught superstition.

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14-06-2016, 10:21 AM
RE: My daughter's grandparents want to send her to vacation bible school
Oh, they're definitely trying to get her in their clutches. I shudder to think what might have been if they never found me, or if they had been more able to take care of her. One of her friends (from before she knew me) mothers said that she seems happier now than she has been in a long time. I wish I could have been in her life a lot earlier.

She has her own cell phone, so I think she'd be able to make the call if she needed to. And I know my mom certainly has no problem stepping on anyone's toes. Nor does my sister or Aunt. (None of whom are religious). If they gave my mom trouble, I'd be more worried about them than her. She has this way of making you feel like you're two inches tall. I wish I could have gotten that from her. But she's more product circumstance, and less one of genetics.

These people keep giving her conflicting messages too. I mean before her mom died, they told her (not my daughter, but her mother) that she was going to hell. Now they say she's in heaven. Kind of funny how that works. They probably think she's leaning toward not believing because of fear that her mother went to hell, but I'd say it's probably more because she sees that people believe whatever they want to believe when it's convenient for them. At least from what she's told me. Then again, I prefer to actually listen to my daughter, than try to make her see things my way or the highway.

I want her to be able to see her grandparents, since they are the people she's closest to on her mom's side of the family. I don't want to take that away from her. But I also don't want her to feel pressured. I wish I could have a rational discussion with them. I'd like to tell them that they can feel free to tell her what they believe (and make it clear that this is just their beliefs), but not to tell her what she should believe because that should be up to her to decide. But I feel that it'd be like talking to a wall. Of course talking to a wall would probably be more productive.
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14-06-2016, 10:32 AM
RE: My daughter's grandparents want to send her to vacation bible school
(14-06-2016 10:21 AM)Ash Wrote:  Oh, they're definitely trying to get her in their clutches. I shudder to think what might have been if they never found me, or if they had been more able to take care of her. One of her friends (from before she knew me) mothers said that she seems happier now than she has been in a long time. I wish I could have been in her life a lot earlier.

She has her own cell phone, so I think she'd be able to make the call if she needed to. And I know my mom certainly has no problem stepping on anyone's toes. Nor does my sister or Aunt. (None of whom are religious). If they gave my mom trouble, I'd be more worried about them than her. She has this way of making you feel like you're two inches tall. I wish I could have gotten that from her. But she's more product circumstance, and less one of genetics.

These people keep giving her conflicting messages too. I mean before her mom died, they told her (not my daughter, but her mother) that she was going to hell. Now they say she's in heaven. Kind of funny how that works. They probably think she's leaning toward not believing because of fear that her mother went to hell, but I'd say it's probably more because she sees that people believe whatever they want to believe when it's convenient for them. At least from what she's told me. Then again, I prefer to actually listen to my daughter, than try to make her see things my way or the highway.

I want her to be able to see her grandparents, since they are the people she's closest to on her mom's side of the family. I don't want to take that away from her. But I also don't want her to feel pressured. I wish I could have a rational discussion with them. I'd like to tell them that they can feel free to tell her what they believe (and make it clear that this is just their beliefs), but not to tell her what she should believe because that should be up to her to decide. But I feel that it'd be like talking to a wall. Of course talking to a wall would probably be more productive.

I urge you to flat out tell them to knock off the coercion or you will cut them out of her life.
Y'know, put the fear of God in 'em. Dodgy

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14-06-2016, 04:19 PM
RE: My daughter's grandparents want to send her to vacation bible school
(14-06-2016 10:21 AM)Ash Wrote:  But I feel that it'd be like talking to a wall. Of course talking to a wall would probably be more productive.

For a start, the wall's unlikely to lay a guilt trip on you.

If they keep behaving like brats give them a time-out. A few months to consider their sins. When you re-establish contact make sure they know what the terms are.

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14-06-2016, 06:28 PM
RE: My daughter's grandparents want to send her to vacation bible school
Quote:Well they called again this morning. Not me, but her this time.

They have now crossed the line with this jesus shit.

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
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14-06-2016, 07:15 PM
RE: My daughter's grandparents want to send her to vacation bible school
(14-06-2016 10:32 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(14-06-2016 10:21 AM)Ash Wrote:  Oh, they're definitely trying to get her in their clutches.
...

I urge you to flat out tell them to knock off the coercion or you will cut them out of her life.
Y'know, put the fear of God in 'em. Dodgy

Sorta. But there is a more subtle and, so I'm told, more productive way of going about it...

Ash,
If they are genuine nutjobs god-fearing christians, then their fear of hell is real (I mean by that, that it's their perception of reality, of course) and they have a duty to bring everyone to christ (whatever that means).

In the case of their own flesh and blood they are quite possibly feeling terrified for themselves and for your daughter should they fail in their duty.

Have a conversation with them and find out if this is what they are feeling i.e. physical stress / anxiety (rather than some sort of perverse pleasure derived from a hell 'n' damnation kinda sadism).

Once this has been established, talk to your daughter about that and decide between you how you both can help them see that they have already done what their god has asked them to do and the rest is up to god.

God will bring her to Jesus in his own way and in his own sweet time, if that is the will of Allah.

They will not be punished because they have done all they can.

Matt Dillahunty has told of how this approach has helped create an uneasy truce with his parents and I know of a few other people who have successfully used the same tactic.

Thumbsup Good luck.

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14-06-2016, 10:09 PM
RE: My daughter's grandparents want to send her to vacation bible school
(14-06-2016 07:15 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(14-06-2016 10:32 AM)Chas Wrote:  I urge you to flat out tell them to knock off the coercion or you will cut them out of her life.
Y'know, put the fear of God in 'em. Dodgy

Sorta. But there is a more subtle and, so I'm told, more productive way of going about it...

Ash,
If they are genuine nutjobs god-fearing christians, then their fear of hell is real (I mean by that, that it's their perception of reality, of course) and they have a duty to bring everyone to christ (whatever that means).

In the case of their own flesh and blood they are quite possibly feeling terrified for themselves and for your daughter should they fail in their duty.

Have a conversation with them and find out if this is what they are feeling i.e. physical stress / anxiety (rather than some sort of perverse pleasure derived from a hell 'n' damnation kinda sadism).

Once this has been established, talk to your daughter about that and decide between you how you both can help them see that they have already done what their god has asked them to do and the rest is up to god.

God will bring her to Jesus in his own way and in his own sweet time, if that is the will of Allah.

They will not be punished because they have done all they can.

Matt Dillahunty has told of how this approach has helped create an uneasy truce with his parents and I know of a few other people who have successfully used the same tactic.

Thumbsup Good luck.

Thumbsup I really appreciate the insight that I receive on this site. This will provide useful information to persuade my True Believer wife that baptism can wait! Thanks, for this, DLJ! That "Will of Allah" part is especially amusing.
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15-06-2016, 12:29 PM
RE: My daughter's grandparents want to send her to vacation bible school
(14-06-2016 07:15 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(14-06-2016 10:32 AM)Chas Wrote:  I urge you to flat out tell them to knock off the coercion or you will cut them out of her life.
Y'know, put the fear of God in 'em. Dodgy

Sorta. But there is a more subtle and, so I'm told, more productive way of going about it...

Ash,
If they are genuine nutjobs god-fearing christians, then their fear of hell is real (I mean by that, that it's their perception of reality, of course) and they have a duty to bring everyone to christ (whatever that means).

In the case of their own flesh and blood they are quite possibly feeling terrified for themselves and for your daughter should they fail in their duty.

Have a conversation with them and find out if this is what they are feeling i.e. physical stress / anxiety (rather than some sort of perverse pleasure derived from a hell 'n' damnation kinda sadism).

Once this has been established, talk to your daughter about that and decide between you how you both can help them see that they have already done what their god has asked them to do and the rest is up to god.

God will bring her to Jesus in his own way and in his own sweet time, if that is the will of Allah.

They will not be punished because they have done all they can.

Matt Dillahunty has told of how this approach has helped create an uneasy truce with his parents and I know of a few other people who have successfully used the same tactic.

Thumbsup Good luck.
Can't Like this post enough. Other than the nutjobs thing.. Coming at this from the "other side" as it were, but still finding the grandparents tactics distasteful, this really probably is the best "compromise". It's the one my parents essentially have used in their marriage for 35 years about my father's faith or seeming lack thereof.

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