My first steps as a debater: the Jesus Fanclub
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03-01-2012, 01:07 PM
My first steps as a debater: the Jesus Fanclub
Years ago, when I was slowly abandoning the idea of Christianity I became member of a forum called "the Jesus fanclub" to try and find my faith back. the site mostly focused on youth, so I guessed, "If they can sell it to youngsters, they must be good"!

They had pretty good arguments to me by that time, but when it came to the whole point: "is it true?" They started to shift the burden of proof.
Me: I believe in the big bang
Them: What makes you think it’s true, and the bible don't.
I felt tricked a bit although in those days, I wasn't really sure why.

Now that I gained a lot more insights, I found that I still had a bone to pick with that forum and I was about to subscribe myself to start a real polite "Ask an atheist" tread and to see how long it would take to get banned. Tongue

I went to their welcome page and saw this.

translation:
Due to diminishing demand the Jesus fanclub has seized his operation. There are plenty of other sites where you can find evangelicalism on the web...


TeeHee Big GrinBig Grin

Atheism FTW

Observer

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Disclaimer: Don’t mix the personal opinion above with the absolute and objective truth. Remember to think for yourself. Thank you.
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03-01-2012, 04:24 PM
RE: My first steps as a debater: the Jesus Fanclub
(03-01-2012 01:07 PM)The_observer Wrote:  They had pretty good arguments to me by that time, but when it came to the whole point: "is it true?" They started to shift the burden of proof.
Me: I believe in the big bang
Them: What makes you think it’s true, and the bible don't.
I felt tricked a bit although in those days, I wasn't really sure why.

Well... if you believe in the big bang, the burden of proof is actually on you. You're making a positive claim. However, you don't have to prove that the bible's claim about the start of the universe is false, either... the burden of proof is on him to prove that. The only position that wouldn't require evidence is to say "I don't know how the universe started".

The proof of the big bang is found in background radiation and red shift. I'd recommend learning about it here, which is where I got my remedial education after going through school with my fingers in my ears (thanks to my crippling religiosity).

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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03-01-2012, 04:51 PM
RE: My first steps as a debater: the Jesus Fanclub
That's why I don't talk about proof; I talk about preponderance of evidence.

For instance, it seems unlikely that there are any gods since there is no evidence for their existence and overwhelming evidence against.

So this is not proof in the mathematical/logical sense, but qualifies in the 'beyond a reasonable doubt' sense.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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03-01-2012, 04:54 PM
RE: My first steps as a debater: the Jesus Fanclub
Hehe, lol, I read that (without translation of course)
Maybe you can give a bite on geloof.forum-xl.nl/ there are a lot of rabiate believers.
Due a spamtrap I can't log in there, but you can really have fun there.

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03-01-2012, 07:48 PM
RE: My first steps as a debater: the Jesus Fanclub
(03-01-2012 04:24 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  The proof of the big bang is found in background radiation and red shift. I'd recommend learning about it here, which is where I got my remedial education after going through school with my fingers in my ears (thanks to my crippling religiosity).

It's amazing to think how much I ignored because Jesus didn't want me hearing certain things. I wonder now how I could have been so efficient at my selectivity.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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03-01-2012, 08:07 PM
RE: My first steps as a debater: the Jesus Fanclub
Big Bang... that's when I drew that dang Gwynnies. I'm a believer. Wink

I went back to the religious forums with a sock puppet. I don't like that place. Only go backwards when you run into a wall; my advice. Wink

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04-01-2012, 12:15 PM
RE: My first steps as a debater: the Jesus Fanclub
When I was in school, I was a mater-debater. Especially about the Big Bang.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

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04-01-2012, 12:46 PM (This post was last modified: 04-01-2012 12:54 PM by MasterRottweiler.)
RE: My first steps as a debater: the Jesus Fanclub
(03-01-2012 01:07 PM)The_observer Wrote:  They had pretty good arguments to me by that time, but when it came to the whole point: "is it true?" They started to shift the burden of proof.
Me: I believe in the big bang
Them: What makes you think it’s true, and the bible don't.
I felt tricked a bit although in those days, I wasn't really sure why.

Oh, don't worry, when I started debating religious people, it was easy for me to fall into that kind of logical traps, I'm sure you still remember when I posted the Thomas Aquinas post months ago, like you, I've gained a lot of knowledge in the last months, and I'm more capable now to defend myself in philosophical debates. Big Grin

(04-01-2012 12:15 PM)Science Believer Wrote:  When I was in school, I was a mater-debater. Especially about the Big Bang.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Hahaha, you reminded me when Michael Payton said that William Lane Craig was a master debater and a cunning linguist on an episode of The Magic Sandwich Show hahahaha.

BTW nice avatar, Rainbow Dash is the best pony. Tongue

"The tendency to turn human judgments into divine commands makes religion one of the most dangerous forces in the world.”
-Georgia Harkness.

"La fe es patrimonio de los pendejos. (Faith is patrimony of the dumbfucks)."
-Diego Rivera
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04-01-2012, 01:13 PM (This post was last modified: 04-01-2012 01:19 PM by Observer.)
RE: My first steps as a debater: the Jesus Fanclub
My reply today would be: " I have reasonable expectations that the math behind "The big bang theory" is correct. however, BBT doesn’t have churches telling people what to do or think.

Ignoring the fact that there IS proof for BBT: The lack of proof for my theory is not proof for the validity of yours.
(04-01-2012 12:46 PM)MasterRottweiler Wrote:  
(03-01-2012 01:07 PM)The_observer Wrote:  They had pretty good arguments to me by that time, but when it came to the whole point: "is it true?" They started to shift the burden of proof.
Me: I believe in the big bang
Them: What makes you think it’s true, and the bible don't.
I felt tricked a bit although in those days, I wasn't really sure why.

Oh, don't worry, when I started debating religious people, it was easy for me to fall into that kind of logical traps, I'm sure you still remember when I posted the Thomas Aquinas post months ago, like you, I've gained a lot of knowledge in the last months, and I'm more capable now to defend myself in philosophical debates. Big Grin
Yesyes, I remember that tread very well...
It was that tread that made me decide I still had a bone to pick with the guys at TJF.
Well... Looks like evolution did the job for me... Big Grin

Observer

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Emotional rationalist
Disclaimer: Don’t mix the personal opinion above with the absolute and objective truth. Remember to think for yourself. Thank you.
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