My idea about when we die what happens.
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26-04-2011, 08:53 AM (This post was last modified: 26-04-2011 08:57 AM by Cetaceaphile.)
RE: My idea about when we die what happens.
Everyone seems to be either misunderstanding or ignoring the OP.

OP is saying that consciousness is an experience and that we, as we are now, are not the exclusive consciousness and are in fact a jump between. It's similar to the theory that every consciousness is experienced by one 'person' rather than each consciousness experiencing itself. It's not reincarnation because there is no transfer other than the ability to experience, which may be a universal net anyway, like in the 'single person' idea.


Edit: though this is possibly the hardest to explain theory, it can be helped a little if I point out that in some areas of physics, usually to do with bundled sub-atomic energy, reactions can happen before the action that causes them.

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26-04-2011, 11:33 AM
RE: My idea about when we die what happens.
I think they all looked too hard on the fact the he used the phrase born again, though he had been looking at other parts of life then went back to the discussion at hand. His basic analogy is that a baby would be an unformatted computer. you then install the info and as it gathers and calculates the consciousness arises. Then when it dies the information is lost. And when you go to retrieve it there really isn't much you can do. Even reusing the initial components for new life you will never get that same consciousness.

It's just like the consciousness you have today may not be the consciousness you have in 10 years. as we live compounding experiences warp our minds and create harsher and harsher coding as to our personal experience of life. I'm not sure if much of what I'm suggesting is the actuality of his views he'll be the one to decide that. But basically the idea being that there is still recycling of yourself through things like reproduction. Parts of you being used over again, but there can never again be a you.

In my personal belief there is something like a cache of information that is collected from everything that exists in a sort of gigantic batch file (continuing to use computer terms =p). I believe in a collective conciousness which grows with the world and attains new information that has some building block information for that which comes after it, but that of course this is not an overarching thing there is no database where your brain is plugged into all the time, it's just a collection off to the side that could be tapped into. And of course at that point it wouldn't exactly be your information, but information collected throughout.

I'm an intelligent enough person that I can look at things I got kind of tired of really trying to explain these things around 12 because when you're discussing the possible you never get anywhere. Everyone has their own odd ways of making sense of whatever questions pop in their heads. I did a lot of thinking and came up with a lot, and then found out that other people aren't going to notice that.

I hope this helps some in articulating your idea snuff since you do want to articulate it. We can discuss and whittle it down if you like.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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26-04-2011, 12:31 PM
RE: My idea about when we die what happens.
(26-04-2011 12:36 AM)Snuff Wrote:  You are born again but as a different consciousness without a soul or spirit transfer. It's simply another human (baby) experiencing a consciousness.

So you aren't born again, then?

No offense, but this idea is self-contradictory. It's the same as saying "I painted a canvas blue, and then I painted it again with the same color, only it was red." It is not a coherent idea. You can't be "born again" as someone who isn't the same person in any way. That is not what "born again" means.

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26-04-2011, 03:00 PM
RE: My idea about when we die what happens.
(26-04-2011 08:53 AM)Cetaceaphile Wrote:  Everyone seems to be either misunderstanding or ignoring the OP.

OP is saying that consciousness is an experience and that we, as we are now, are not the exclusive consciousness and are in fact a jump between. It's similar to the theory that every consciousness is experienced by one 'person' rather than each consciousness experiencing itself. It's not reincarnation because there is no transfer other than the ability to experience, which may be a universal net anyway, like in the 'single person' idea.


Edit: though this is possibly the hardest to explain theory, it can be helped a little if I point out that in some areas of physics, usually to do with bundled sub-atomic energy, reactions can happen before the action that causes them.

This is about the closest thing I've seen that is short and simple, thank you. Hopefully people can make sense out of it. Like I said it's very hard to explain and I'm sure I did contradict myself but it's very confusing for me to even explain and I'm the one that came up with the idea of it as far as I know. Also I have never been able to even explain this to anybody but since this is a forum I can actually get closer with everyone's help!
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29-04-2011, 09:58 AM (This post was last modified: 29-04-2011 10:18 AM by Tim_Kiebooms.)
RE: My idea about when we die what happens.
I've been thinking about a comparable theory myself actually.

I started with the idea of consciousness coming to existence. There has to be a part where the body was fit for a consciousness. Let's say experiencing consciousness doesn't work by the linearity of time and that you actually live every live on the same time, but you just experience it in a different order. But since this is a theory you can't prove or disprove and of which there aren't even analogies in the scientific theories we know, it's pretty worthless.
It does however makes sense that everything starts again (like snuff said) since there are a lot of theories like the Big Crunch theory and the cycle of stars that also have repeating processes, so in some way the idea of somehow living again after this live isn't that bad.

For example let's say the universe's existence is endless or repeated for eternity. That would mean things would have to happen again (assuming there aren't endless options) Let's say another creature comes to it's existence in the future that has a comparable thing that makes it have a consciousness with the one you have now, which is certainly a possibility if time would be endless. Wouldn't it be logical if the same "you" would be the one to experience that life? (i really have no idea of saying this differently)

I hope you understand my theory, cause it seems possible in my opinion, however it won't work if you don't have a possibility for a universe for eternity.
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29-04-2011, 10:18 AM
RE: My idea about when we die what happens.
When we die that's exactly what happens, we die, we do not exist anymore, thats it. That may be quite blunt to others that may be reading this but that is what I believe. I cannot assume anything different as there is no proof that we live on after death.

Quote:"Religion poisons everything." - Christopher Hitchens
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30-04-2011, 06:09 PM
 
RE: My idea about when we die what happens.
I had to register to add my two cents because this is something I've been thinking about lately. I've been trying get my head around the question, "Why am I conscious in this particular body at this particular moment in space and time?" It occurred to me that in asking the question, I may be making the unconscious assumption that my consciousness is separate from my body. Which I believe to be highly unlikely, so why would I make that assumption? I can only say because it feels separate from my body. I suppose this is why people believe in religions, life after death, reincarnation, ghosts, ESP, etc., because they have a strong sense of being more than just a physical body and physical brain. Maybe also why the original poster (Snuff ) has his idea of what happens when we die. He said, "You are born again but as a different consciousness without a soul or spirit transfer". But who or what is the "you" you are referring to if not consciousness, soul or spirit? You have to be assuming that there is something outside of the physical.

So then I ask, "is there an evolutionary purpose for this sense of being more than physical?" Or is it just an unavoidable side effect of being conscious and aware of one's own existence, sensations, thoughts, surroundings, etc., which of course is very helpful for human perpetuation?
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30-04-2011, 08:10 PM
RE: My idea about when we die what happens.
Well when I was having to identify a subject on certain things I was referring to (you) or me it's simply talking about my consciousness and in the other part I just had to inform the readers of who I am referring to... but I guess it really isn't someone but something. On the other hand I agree that it could be an unavoidable side effect of being conscious and aware of our existence. It's possible though that we simply are one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively Could this be the reason we wonder why we are the person we are? It could provide some answers but I don't think the possibility of proving it is even possible... or at least until we finally come to our ending agreement with this universe. Even then we may not even know... we could just black out as we did before we were born. Once your dead you are long gone and that's it.

Now as I was saying you will have a new consciousness... so to be honest what I'm saying is that the only thing that is once you die (YOU) are dead. You died 10/10/80 @ 5:00 pm James Bob was born 10/10/80 @ 5:01 pm.
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01-05-2011, 03:00 PM
 
RE: My idea about when we die what happens.
OK, maybe I get what you're saying. You're going to love this LOL, it's a pitiful metaphor but here goes. Like Carl Sagan said "we are all star-stuff". So out of this "star-stuff" arises every living and nonliving thing in the universe. So, picture the earth (I'm an artist, I have to 'picture' things) as a big ball of bubbling boiling star-stuff and the various life forms as the bubbles. So little bubbles rise up out of the star-stuff earth, one little bubble might be a spider made of star-stuff with very little if any self awareness. Medium size bubbles made of star-stuff rise up that have limited self-awareness, some memories and feelings, like my dog. And humans are the big bubbles made of star-stuff with the brain power to become very self aware. Humans rise up out of the star-stuff, look around and say "What the hell, who am I and where did I come from?" All these bubbles of life rise up (one named Snuff) and then pop (die) and sink back down to the earth from which they came. But other bubbles of life (one named James Bob) rise up after them, made from the same bubbling star-stuff earth and so it goes. Not reincarnation, more like recycling LOL. So we are all sort of a random bubble made from the same star-stuff. Of course this isn't exactly right because we come from other people, not directly from the earth, so we're more like some sort of amalgamation that covers the earth. But still made from star-stuff.
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02-05-2011, 09:26 PM
RE: My idea about when we die what happens.
Yea that's pretty much what I was saying. We are self aware of ourselves and only ourselves so when you die your not aware of yourself anymore. You would only be aware of James Bob and no one else.
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