My new leather field journal
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21-01-2013, 01:08 PM
RE: My new leather field journal
Mmm... lovely tooling. Cool latch - a bit overkill but still, way cool. Stitching looks sturdy enough for field work. Thumbsup


You know, if some other primate gets a hold of it... it might be interesting to see what they do with it. Stock up on a few crayons - you never know. Wink

I think in the end, I just feel like I'm a secular person who has a skeptical eye toward any extraordinary claim, carefully examining any extraordinary evidence before jumping to conclusions. ~ Eric ~ My friend ... who figured it out.
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21-01-2013, 01:44 PM (This post was last modified: 21-01-2013 06:06 PM by ghostexorcist.)
RE: My new leather field journal
(21-01-2013 11:55 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Btw, ghostex, I picked up some like those in Beijing a couple of years back.

I'm not sure if it's just the humidity here but the paper decayed very quickly.

So, keep it in a dry place or get some of those little silicon packet thingys that you get when buy leather stuff from a sex shop.

And if you are using it for field notes, do forget to press 'save' regularly and do a back-up.

Thumbsup

I've actually been thinking about that the exact points you bring up. Tropical climates are often hot and wet (the way I like it), so it probably would not be a good journal for the field after all. I could use it back at camp to record my thoughts, though. I will definitely bring plenty of sex wax to keep the leather in pristine condition.

I once went to a sex shop outside of my military base just because it was off limits to us. They had a porn called Edward Penis Hands.

(21-01-2013 01:08 PM)kim Wrote:  Mmm... lovely tooling. Cool latch - a bit overkill but still, way cool. Stitching looks sturdy enough for field work. Thumbsup

You know, if some other primate gets a hold of it... it might be interesting to see what they do with it. Stock up on a few crayons - you never know. Wink

Yes, it is a bit overkill. But that is what I like about it; it's just seems so theatrical in presentation.

There have actually been several studies done on primate art. A good book to start with is The Biology of Art (1963) by Desmond Morris. Apes and monkeys love to paint and draw. They even have color preferences. But only captive primates have shown a facility for this.
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21-01-2013, 02:01 PM
RE: My new leather field journal
(21-01-2013 01:44 PM)ghostexorcist Wrote:  There have actually been several studies down on primate art. A good book to start with is The Biology of Art (1963) by Desmond Morris. Apes and monkeys love to paint and draw. They even have color preferences. But only captive primates have shown a facility for this.

So, have no wild primates even shown any curiosity about it? I find that difficult to believe. Consider Hmm... I'd still stock up on some big fat crayons and newsprint tablets. Wouldn't want to miss out on finding our primate cousin Leonardo. Wink

I think in the end, I just feel like I'm a secular person who has a skeptical eye toward any extraordinary claim, carefully examining any extraordinary evidence before jumping to conclusions. ~ Eric ~ My friend ... who figured it out.
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21-01-2013, 03:16 PM
RE: My new leather field journal
(21-01-2013 02:01 PM)kim Wrote:  So, have no wild primates even shown any curiosity about it? I find that difficult to believe. Consider Hmm... I'd still stock up on some big fat crayons and newsprint tablets. Wouldn't want to miss out on finding our primate cousin Leonardo. Wink

Not that I have ever read. I'm sure wild primates have a capacity for art since their captive counterparts do. But I think the reason they have never demonstrated it in the wild is because it has no purpose in the their society. This is because all of a primate's mental faculties are tied up in not only surviving day to day, but also navigating the extremely complex social society. For example, there are social rankings in every stage of a young chimp's life. They must know who is who, what ranking they are, and who is afforded special status because they are friends with, say, the alpha or his mother. Captive apes probably do art because they are placed in an environment that allows them to focus their mind elsewhere. By placing a pencil or paint brush in their hands, we are in fact giving them access to new ways of thinking since these are not natural objects in the wild.

The chimp Congo is usually considered the primate Leonardo. He produced some 400 paintings before his death of TB.
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21-01-2013, 04:24 PM
RE: My new leather field journal
(21-01-2013 03:16 PM)ghostexorcist Wrote:  By placing a pencil or paint brush in their hands, we are in fact giving them access to new ways of thinking since these are not natural objects in the wild. ... The chimp Congo is usually considered the primate Leonardo. He produced some 400 paintings before his death of TB.

While the chimps do have a certain surrealistic appeal, there is some dispute as to whether it constitutes art.

“It is the work of these apes, not that of prehistoric cave artists, that can truly be said to represent the birth of art.” – Desmond Morris

“It is seems to me that anyone who says, 'Yes, chimpanzees have art', is making a mistake. Chimpanzees like to disrupt white paper with big colored blobs.” – Denis Dutton

[Image: chimp_zps6f5546ae.jpg]

On the other hand, nobody disputes the artistic ability of elephants. Big Grin




Breathing - it's more art than science.
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21-01-2013, 04:39 PM
RE: My new leather field journal
That's gorgeous!


Wind's in the east, a mist coming in
Like something is brewing and about to begin
Can't put my finger on what lies in store
but I feel what's to happen has happened before...


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21-01-2013, 05:45 PM
RE: My new leather field journal
(21-01-2013 01:44 PM)ghostexorcist Wrote:  There have actually been several studies down on primate art. A good book to start with is The Biology of Art (1963) by Desmond Morris. Apes and monkeys love to paint and draw. They even have color preferences. But only captive primates have shown a facility for this.
I'm a pretty wild primate, and I have a preference in art. To be fair though, I don't have a favorite color.

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21-01-2013, 08:54 PM
RE: My new leather field journal
(21-01-2013 03:16 PM)ghostexorcist Wrote:  ...
I'm sure wild primates have a capacity for art since their captive counterparts do. But I think the reason they have never demonstrated it in the wild is because it has no purpose in the their society. This is because all of a primate's mental faculties are tied up in not only surviving day to day, but also navigating the extremely complex social society. For example, there are social rankings in every stage of a young chimp's life. They must know who is who, what ranking they are, and who is afforded special status because they are friends with, say, the alpha or his mother.
...

So in the near future, should we look out for a white paper, submitted for peer review, from Prof. GhostExorcist et al that documents the discovery of the wild chimp's (Pan troglodytes) ability to draw - using leather-bound field-journal and chunky crayon - a diagram that shows the structure of an hierarchical organisation and the relationships and relative ranks of its parts and positions/jobs.... the org chart?

I think you should give them a flip chart.

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22-01-2013, 03:10 PM (This post was last modified: 22-01-2013 03:57 PM by ghostexorcist.)
RE: My new leather field journal
(21-01-2013 04:24 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  While the chimps do have a certain surrealistic appeal, there is some dispute as to whether it constitutes art.

“It is the work of these apes, not that of prehistoric cave artists, that can truly be said to represent the birth of art.” – Desmond Morris

“It is seems to me that anyone who says, 'Yes, chimpanzees have art', is making a mistake. Chimpanzees like to disrupt white paper with big colored blobs.” – Denis Dutton

Desmond Morris describes the dispute in his book The Biology of Art (1963). Based on the experiments performed therein, primates find art to be self-rewarding, meaning the individuals he tested did it for the shear enjoyment instead of for some type of food reward. Do I think primates know they are doing art? No. Based on what we currently know about their thought processes (or at least based on my limited amount of reading into that area), I doubt they are able to think in such abstract terms. But the same can be said about human children. They have no idea what composition, shading, or even depth is, but they still love to draw. Art is in the eye of the beholder, so anyone who says that primates only like to splatter paint on white paper needs to ask why humans do it too. Not to mention that we have to be careful not to cross the line into anthropocentrism.

I've seen that video of the elephant painting before. It is pretty neat, but I've heard that they are most likely trained to paint specific pictures. They are extremely intelligent creatures, but I also doubt they are able to think in such abstract terms.

(21-01-2013 08:54 PM)DLJ Wrote:  So in the near future, should we look out for a white paper, submitted for peer review, from Prof. GhostExorcist et al that documents the discovery of the wild chimp's (Pan troglodytes) ability to draw - using leather-bound field-journal and chunky crayon - a diagram that shows the structure of an hierarchical organisation and the relationships and relative ranks of its parts and positions/jobs.... the org chart?

I think you should give them a flip chart.

It might happen. You never know. But I could see those little bastards eating the crayons before they draw anything with them.
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22-01-2013, 03:16 PM
RE: My new leather field journal
I can see the headlines now.



News Flash: Researcher discovers crayons part of Chimps diet!

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