My parents say "who created the big bang?" and ..
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10-02-2014, 05:41 PM
RE: My parents say "who created the big bang?" and ..
That's argument from ignorance. Against it I always bring lightning analogy.
If I can't explain where universe come from it doesn't mean it is constructed by god just as people 1000 years ago could not explain where lightning came from doesn't mean that they were cast by Zeus.
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11-02-2014, 08:18 AM
RE: My parents say "who created the big bang?" and ..
(10-02-2014 02:01 PM)whitemoongurl Wrote:  "how do you think we got here?" They won't actually look into how these could be possible without 'God'.

I know others have said this (undergroundp, at least), but let me elaborate:

If they ask you how the universe started and they claim it was God, ask them "Where did God come from?"

Now, they'll probably give you some special pleading answer like "God is eternal" or "God is timeless", which really doesn't answer the question so much as avoid it. At that point, ask them "How do you know God is eternal/timeless?" and "How do you know the universe doesn't have those qualities?".

Remember: "I don't know" is always a valid answer to "how did the universe start?". It's not like we can observe it; we can only observe the after effects. Your parents are still busting out an "I don't know" on God's cause. They're positing the existence of God to answer questions about the universe, and their answer raises just as many questions. It's honest to say you don't know; it's dishonest to make something up and pretend like it means anything.


(10-02-2014 02:01 PM)whitemoongurl Wrote:  I've also recently become aware of the fact that my mom believes that people who have Near Death Experiences are actually experiencing Heaven.

This is explained by ketamine. People who take the drug experience effects nearly identical to those of NDEs. Particularly, a strong sensation of being out of their own body and the feeling that the whole experience is very profound. Once again, science has the answer!


By the way: welcome!
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11-02-2014, 09:07 AM
RE: My parents say "who created the big bang?" and ..
Tell them to watch this video: (Warning! They use f**k and many other curse words.)
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ODetOE6cbbc...DetOE6cbbc

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11-02-2014, 09:11 AM
RE: My parents say "who created the big bang?" and ..
Also, look at this: look here

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11-02-2014, 09:33 AM
RE: My parents say "who created the big bang?" and ..
Somehow, I never seem to think of all of this stuff at the time that it comes up because, for me, it's usually unexpected and I don't have any other resources around to help me make my point at the time.

One evening, there was some mention of Christians' persecution of homosexuals. I had remembered that, in the Bible, it was required that homosexuals should be put to death and told them about it. I think I even remembered it was in the book of Leviticus, but I couldn't remember what verse it was. And, of course, they didn't believe me. I ended up finding the verse later on, but never mentioned it after that. I wonder if I shouldtell them at this point.

They really only use their religious beliefs for comfort. They haven't been to a regular church service in over 10 years. To them (and me over a year ago), Jesus was - at the very least - a philanthropist and philosopher who died and went to Heaven and that's where all our dead relatives are waiting for us.

(11-02-2014 09:07 AM)Alex_Leonardo Wrote:  Tell them to watch this video: (Warning! They use f**k and many other curse words.)
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ODetOE6cbbc...DetOE6cbbc

I've actually seen that video. I think they would not really even pay attention to it since it is a parody of their 'God'. I enjoy DarkMatter's videos, though. Smile
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11-02-2014, 09:35 AM
RE: My parents say "who created the big bang?" and ..
(11-02-2014 09:11 AM)Alex_Leonardo Wrote:  Also, look at this: look here

Hmm! Thanks! Looks interesting. Smile
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28-02-2014, 04:02 PM
RE: My parents say "who created the big bang?" and ..
(10-02-2014 05:39 PM)Im_Ryan Wrote:  
(10-02-2014 02:55 PM)undergroundp Wrote:  And why can't this apply to the universe?

"Because it doesn't work that way"
Or
"That wouldn't make sense"

Pick whichever, don't matter to me Drinking Beverage

Or

"there is a considerable amount of observable evidence that suggests the universe is not eternal...that it had a beginning."

It is true we are not certain that the universe had a beginning but it seems that it did. The foundation of the claim that universe could itself be eternal, exists only in the small shadow of uncertainty. It is a claim which makes a weak basis for a refutation of that theistic argument.

Just sayingDrinking Beverage
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28-02-2014, 04:25 PM
RE: My parents say "who created the big bang?" and ..
(11-02-2014 09:33 AM)whitemoongurl Wrote:  They really only use their religious beliefs for comfort. They haven't been to a regular church service in over 10 years. To them (and me over a year ago), Jesus was - at the very least - a philanthropist and philosopher who died and went to Heaven and that's where all our dead relatives are waiting for us.
Why do you want to take this comfort away from them?
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28-02-2014, 06:38 PM
My parents say "who created the big bang?" and ..
(28-02-2014 04:25 PM)alpha male Wrote:  
(11-02-2014 09:33 AM)whitemoongurl Wrote:  They really only use their religious beliefs for comfort. They haven't been to a regular church service in over 10 years. To them (and me over a year ago), Jesus was - at the very least - a philanthropist and philosopher who died and went to Heaven and that's where all our dead relatives are waiting for us.
Why do you want to take this comfort away from them?

Because truth and reality out-value lies and deceit.

Knowing you're simply a person, and not a hopelessly flawed heathen sinner unworthy of redemption or love, respect, or adoration without groveling before a malevolent sky-deity that demands what we are told we don't deserve for being born is also comforting.

Why would you want to take this comfort away from us?

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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28-02-2014, 07:01 PM
RE: My parents say "who created the big bang?" and ..
(28-02-2014 04:02 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(10-02-2014 05:39 PM)Im_Ryan Wrote:  "Because it doesn't work that way"
Or
"That wouldn't make sense"

Pick whichever, don't matter to me Drinking Beverage

Or

"there is a considerable amount of observable evidence that suggests the universe is not eternal...that it had a beginning."

It is true we are not certain that the universe had a beginning but it seems that it did. The foundation of the claim that universe could itself be eternal, exists only in the small shadow of uncertainty. It is a claim which makes a weak basis for a refutation of that theistic argument.

Just sayingDrinking Beverage

Hmm, let me make this very simple for you:
I don't like roast beef sandwiches.
Therefore, I must like turkey sandwiches.


Can you spot the fallacy? If not, then please don't reply to me nor continue reading from this point.

If yes, then explain to me how this is any different:
We don't know how, or even if, the universe started.
Therefore, God did it.


Is it possible? Yes.
Is it likely? No, not even close.
Is science 100% right about their theories? No, but it's the best we have. If you can come up with something that actually begins to answer real questions and is better than current models, then please, enlighten us.
Until then, shouting "GAWDIDET" isn't going to get anyone anywhere.

Atir aissom atir imon
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