My parents say "who created the big bang?" and ..
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28-02-2014, 10:29 PM
RE: My parents say "who created the big bang?" and ..
(28-02-2014 10:24 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(28-02-2014 10:09 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  How the fuck is "I don't know and reserve judgement" considered a choice? You make it sound like a decision has been made. Well yeah, a decision to not have a decision.

You did not reserve judgment. You chose to believe the explanation is something other than God.

I like how you skipped my post.

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28-02-2014, 10:31 PM
RE: My parents say "who created the big bang?" and ..
(28-02-2014 10:24 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(28-02-2014 10:09 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  How the fuck is "I don't know and reserve judgement" considered a choice? You make it sound like a decision has been made. Well yeah, a decision to not have a decision.

You did not reserve judgment. You chose to believe the explanation is something other than God.

God is not a very credible explanation. While it is not out of the question, it isn't believed on bad evidence. Judgement is reserved.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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28-02-2014, 11:02 PM (This post was last modified: 28-02-2014 11:18 PM by rampant.a.i..)
My parents say "who created the big bang?" and ..
(28-02-2014 10:09 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  How the fuck is "I don't know and reserve judgement" considered a choice? You make it sound like a decision has been made. Well yeah, a decision to not have a decision.

When the alternative is "make shit up," it's a reasonable choice.

You suspend judgement until additional evidence can be gathered.

If that doesn't sit well with you, think of "not guilty" verdicts. They don't always mean a defendant is exonerated. Sometimes there isn't enough evidence to form a reasonable conclusion.


(28-02-2014 09:06 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(28-02-2014 08:55 PM)rampant.a.i. Wrote:  And no, to the scientifically minded, GodDidIt is not "as good a reason as any." In the absence of evidence, "I don't know and withhold judgement" is the only reasonable choice.

Except you've made a judgment. You've judged the cause was something other than God. Doesn't that make your choice unreasonable since you've admitted you don't know?

I don't know with certainty whether or not <God exists> is true. It is entirely possible, but I've never seen evidence to support such a claim. I'm aware of thousands of years of philosophical inquiry end in nothing but "We don't know, :. GodDidIt," with well-reasoned objections from opponents, and no reasonable support other than cultural/religious indoctrination of the day.

I have also also seen no empirical evidence to support <God exists>, including a near-death experience.

Do I know whether or not the Christian God, or any other of thousands exists? Nope.

Should I pick one to believe in? Which one? Which tradition? Should I accept all of their dogma, including rituals I know are borrowed from other faiths, and explanations I don't believe, or revisions of history it know are false? Seems dishonest, with myself and to the people who believe.

Am I going to remind people "The Truth" does not come bound in a single book cobbled together from multiple translations, copied by hand with editorial bias and a high margin of error? Yep.

β€œIt is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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28-02-2014, 11:12 PM
RE: My parents say "who created the big bang?" and ..
Do you know what caused the big bang? No. Then say so otherwise it would be a lie.
As for near death experiences they are different from person to person so how can you tell which ones are real and which ones are not? Hallucinations are unreliable.
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28-02-2014, 11:22 PM
RE: My parents say "who created the big bang?" and ..
(28-02-2014 10:31 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(28-02-2014 10:24 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  You did not reserve judgment. You chose to believe the explanation is something other than God.

God is not a very credible explanation. While it is not out of the question, it isn't believed on bad evidence. Judgement is reserved.

Why isn't God a credible explanation for the creation of our universe? If you really reserved judgment you wouldn't be judging some explanations more credible than others.
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28-02-2014, 11:27 PM (This post was last modified: 28-02-2014 11:34 PM by Im_Ryan.)
RE: My parents say "who created the big bang?" and ..
(28-02-2014 11:22 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(28-02-2014 10:31 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  God is not a very credible explanation. While it is not out of the question, it isn't believed on bad evidence. Judgement is reserved.

Why isn't God a credible explanation for the creation of our universe? If you really reserved judgment you wouldn't be judging some explanations more credible than others.

I already explained why, but you conveniently skipped my post.




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28-02-2014, 11:37 PM
RE: My parents say "who created the big bang?" and ..
(28-02-2014 11:22 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(28-02-2014 10:31 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  God is not a very credible explanation. While it is not out of the question, it isn't believed on bad evidence. Judgement is reserved.

Why isn't God a credible explanation for the creation of our universe? If you really reserved judgment you wouldn't be judging some explanations more credible than others.

Because there is no credible evidence for that conclusion. Until some such evidence is provided, that answer is included in the "judgement reserved" column.

And for that matter, when it comes to the "creation of the universe" there is no answer that is really worth anything other than reserved judgement. You can get off the high horse, because your shit stinks just as much as anyone else's.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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28-02-2014, 11:58 PM
RE: My parents say "who created the big bang?" and ..
(28-02-2014 11:37 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(28-02-2014 11:22 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Why isn't God a credible explanation for the creation of our universe? If you really reserved judgment you wouldn't be judging some explanations more credible than others.

Because there is no credible evidence for that conclusion. Until some such evidence is provided, that answer is included in the "judgement reserved" column.

And for that matter, when it comes to the "creation of the universe" there is no answer that is really worth anything other than reserved judgement. You can get off the high horse, because your shit stinks just as much as anyone else's.

I think I could make a strong case that the universe is the creation of an intellect.
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01-03-2014, 12:07 AM
RE: My parents say "who created the big bang?" and ..
(28-02-2014 11:58 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(28-02-2014 11:37 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  Because there is no credible evidence for that conclusion. Until some such evidence is provided, that answer is included in the "judgement reserved" column.

And for that matter, when it comes to the "creation of the universe" there is no answer that is really worth anything other than reserved judgement. You can get off the high horse, because your shit stinks just as much as anyone else's.

I think I could make a strong case that the universe is the creation of an intellect.

I'll bet you and everyone else that's already tried couldn't.


Shoe.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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01-03-2014, 12:25 AM
RE: My parents say "who created the big bang?" and ..
(01-03-2014 12:07 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(28-02-2014 11:58 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I think I could make a strong case that the universe is the creation of an intellect.

I'll bet you and everyone else that's already tried couldn't.


Shoe.

How about you and I have a discussion about it in the boxing ring?
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