My parents say "who created the big bang?" and ..
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01-03-2014, 08:10 PM
RE: My parents say "who created the big bang?" and ..
(01-03-2014 07:36 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I'm headed to the ring with Evenheathen.

*evenheathen

Don't go giving me a big head. Laughat

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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01-03-2014, 08:38 PM (This post was last modified: 01-03-2014 09:01 PM by Full Circle.)
RE: My parents say "who created the big bang?" and ..
(28-02-2014 08:54 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(28-02-2014 08:28 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Isn't it simpler and more honest to say we don't know yet and may never know instead of pulling some mythical being out of thin air and saying, "there, this guy did it"?

How does this substantiate the position that there is no God or refute the position that the Universe must have had a cause?

Either you don't understand what I wrote or you deliberately misconstrued it. Your response is a non-sequitor.

Let me try another way, you say
(28-02-2014 07:28 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  If you don't know how the universe started, God is as good an explanation as any. "We don't know how the universe started" does not refute the theists claim that it was started by God.

I gave you the following explanation of what many people believed and may still believe:

According to Norse lore, before there was Earth (Midgard), there was Muspell, a fiery land guarded by the fire sword-wielding Surt; Ginnungagap, a great void, and Niflheim, a frozen ice-covered land. When the cold of Niflheim touched the fires of Muspell, the giant Ymir and a behemothic cow, Au�humla, emerged from the thaw. Then, the cow licked the god Bor and his wife into being. The couple gave birth to Buri, who fathered three sons, Odin, Vili, and V�. The sons rose up and killed Ymir and from his corpse created from his flesh, the Earth; the mountains from his bones, trees with his hair and rivers, and the seas and lakes with his blood. Within Ymir's hollowed-out skull, the gods created the starry heavens.

Using your own argument I can say that since we don't know how the universe started, the story above is as good an explanation as any. There is no reason why this story has any less credibility than any other.

Anyone can say regarding the universe whatever preposterous thing comes to their mind and since it can't be "refuted" as you say then it stands as a possible, however unlikely, explanation.

I maintain that a giant oatmeal cookie always existed and created the universe, it can't be refuted, therefore this is as good an explanation as any wouldn't you agree?

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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02-03-2014, 09:55 AM
RE: My parents say "who created the big bang?" and ..
(28-02-2014 04:02 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  "there is a considerable amount of observable evidence that suggests the universe is not eternal...that it had a beginning."

It is true we are not certain that the universe had a beginning but it seems that it did. The foundation of the claim that universe could itself be eternal, exists only in the small shadow of uncertainty. It is a claim which makes a weak basis for a refutation of that theistic argument.

The theistic argument also has a considerable amount of uncertainty, as well. It's not that we'd disprove the theistic stance by saying the universe might be eternal; we're merely stating that the cosmological argument is far from certain and doesn't prove a thing.

The correct answer is "I don't know" or perhaps "We don't know yet".
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02-03-2014, 01:44 PM
RE: My parents say "who created the big bang?" and ..
What I do know is that if somebody will discover how the universe began they certainly are not gonna be theologians or evangelists.
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