My political viewpoints (you probably won't agree)!
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17-10-2011, 05:14 PM (This post was last modified: 17-10-2011 05:28 PM by Hughsie.)
My political viewpoints (you probably won't agree)!
This started as a reply to Zatamon's The adverserial "Justice" System thread but kinda snowballed to the point that I felt I would be unfairly high-jacking his thread.

This is just a brief list of some of my political viewpoints but I think it will be in complete contrast to most of you. I am posting it partly because I feel that this forum is dominated by far left politics and partly because I would like to hear the counter points to my views (I enjoy hearing new opinions).

THESE ARE MY REAL VIEWS! I am not just trying to be controversial or argumentative, I am hoping for some reasoned debate in which I can exchange ideas with people and learn from them and help them to understand 'the other side' so to speak.

These views are also based on English politics/society, not American, so please allow for that.

My views;
I think that the current legal system is far from perfect but I have yet to see a suggestion that I prefer.
I think that having some form of currency is absolutely vital to society.
I think that hard-work + effort usually DOES equal success but the political left are starting to ruin that.
I think that employment laws should give less rights to workers (party due to witnessing laws that are designed to help workers but actually detriment them on closer inspection and partly due to thinking some laws are simply unfair).
I think that if employment laws are tightened up and clarified then trade unions should be BANNED! DESTROYED! OBLITERATED! ERASED FROM EXISTENCE!
I am not a huge fan of democracy, I don't think I could advocate a total dictatorship but I'm not far from it (the reason I am kinda vague here is that I am only young and haven't quite decided what balance I would want between the two).
I think voters need to be kept as out of politics as possible.
I think that, for the most part, it's not worth listening to the opinions of the general population.
I am hugely pro equality.
I am hugely against political correctness. I am as for equality as anyone but I do sometimes laugh at racist/sexist/homophobic jokes (as do most of you I suspect), that doesn't mean I agree with the sentiment, it means that some form of wit was well applied.
I think protest laws should be greatly tightened.
I would like to see every person camped out in London as part of the 'occupy' campaign slapped very hard with a dead fish.
I think that trade unions should be DEMOLISHED! BULLDOZED! ERADICATED! Just to be sure.

Just to add some context I am 19 and I work in my local supermarket, I'm not CEO of a large company or anything.

I look forward to hearing you responses. I will try and reply to all of them and explain exactly what has led me to what many of you will probably see as very extreme views.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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17-10-2011, 05:25 PM
RE: My political viewpoints (you probably won't agree)!
You're right; i don't.
And i also believe that the next half decade belongs to your side.
Enjoy it....

If you pray to anything, you're prey to anything.
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17-10-2011, 05:37 PM
 
RE: My political viewpoints (you probably won't agree)!
(17-10-2011 05:14 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  THESE ARE MY REAL VIEWS! I am not just trying to be controversial or argumentative

You are quite welcome to them.

You may outgrow them yet ... or not, depending on what the future brings to you.

In the meantime --- enjoy! Big Grin

PS. It never stops amazing me how many people consistently campaign against their own self interest!

Their exploiters are truly brilliant -- laughing at their victims, all the way to the bankt!!!
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17-10-2011, 05:46 PM (This post was last modified: 17-10-2011 05:57 PM by bemore.)
RE: My political viewpoints (you probably won't agree)!
I would be interested in discussing your views and finding out where they came from hughsie my friend.......but its late and I have to be up for work in 5 hours (naughty me surfing so late into the night Tongue)

However I see your from the UK like me........and please dont take this the wrong way but when I read your views they reminded me of this.









Your views are actually quite close to reality.
Also the people who are marching on wall street and in fact all over the world (myself included) dont actually want to be there.........they are doing it for a very valid reason and that is basicly Capitilalism.

In 2010 the UK paid £45 MILLION to the European Union EVERY SINGLE DAY (ill let you do the maths).........and now they are holding talks of injecting 2 TRILLION into the Euro.

You see Hughsie we wont see any of that money (not that this money will do anything anyway except weaken the money that is currently in use, driving up the cost of living and creating even more poverty) yet me and you will be expected to pay for this "bailout"

Do you think this is fair???

Because a lot of what your viewpoints say are basicly a removal of your rights (in my eyes) which is basicly what the European Union seems to be about.

Thats why I posted those two videos.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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17-10-2011, 06:16 PM
RE: My political viewpoints (you probably won't agree)!
(17-10-2011 05:14 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  This started as a reply to Zatamon's The adverserial "Justice" System thread but kinda snowballed to the point that I felt I would be unfairly high-jacking his thread.

This is just a brief list of some of my political viewpoints but I think it will be in complete contrast to most of you. I am posting it partly because I feel that this forum is dominated by far left politics and partly because I would like to hear the counter points to my views (I enjoy hearing new opinions).

THESE ARE MY REAL VIEWS! I am not just trying to be controversial or argumentative, I am hoping for some reasoned debate in which I can exchange ideas with people and learn from them and help them to understand 'the other side' so to speak.

These views are also based on English politics/society, not American, so please allow for that.

My views;
1. I think that the current legal system is far from perfect but I have yet to see a suggestion that I prefer.
2. I think that having some form of currency is absolutely vital to society.
3. I think that hard-work + effort usually DOES equal success but the political left are starting to ruin that.
4. I think that employment laws should give less rights to workers (party due to witnessing laws that are designed to help workers but actually detriment them on closer inspection and partly due to thinking some laws are simply unfair).
5. I think that if employment laws are tightened up and clarified then trade unions should be BANNED! DESTROYED! OBLITERATED! ERASED FROM EXISTENCE!
6. I am not a huge fan of democracy, I don't think I could advocate a total dictatorship but I'm not far from it (the reason I am kinda vague here is that I am only young and haven't quite decided what balance I would want between the two).
7. I think voters need to be kept as out of politics as possible.
8. I think that, for the most part, it's not worth listening to the opinions of the general population.
9. I am hugely pro equality.
10. I am hugely against political correctness. I am as for equality as anyone but I do sometimes laugh at racist/sexist/homophobic jokes (as do most of you I suspect), that doesn't mean I agree with the sentiment, it means that some form of wit was well applied.
11. I think protest laws should be greatly tightened.
12. I would like to see every person camped out in London as part of the 'occupy' campaign slapped very hard with a dead fish.
13. I think that trade unions should be DEMOLISHED! BULLDOZED! ERADICATED! Just to be sure.

Just to add some context I am 19 and I work in my local supermarket, I'm not CEO of a large company or anything.

I look forward to hearing you responses. I will try and reply to all of them and explain exactly what has led me to what many of you will probably see as very extreme views.

I actually agree on several measures. I've numbered them for convenience Smile

1. Agreed. I can think of a few modifications to our system, but I can't think of a huge overhaul that I'd prefer. (i.e. parliamentary or dictatorship, etc) Our two-party system sucks. Campaign financing needs to be reformed terribly - no one candidate should have an advantage due to money or fundraising ability. Everyone should split a limited budget on campaigning and compete on ideas, not slogans and slick advertising. That's my #1 change I'd make if I were dictator for a day.
2. No arguing here... bartering sucks....
3. Hard work usually, but not always equals success. Both sides are ruining it, not just the left (govt. doesn't know what the F it's doing).
4. I disagree. We're fairly lax as it is - Europeans have much more strict rules and they seem to do alright. It's just harder to get a job, but easier to keep it. Much better than easy to get a job, but hard to keep it.
5. See #13
6. Strongly disagree... Dictatorships have almost universally failed or resulted in gross human rights violations. The problem is greed - anyone with enough ambition and skill to get to the top will likely use it to benefit themselves.
7. Strongly disagree. Voters should be more involved - laws that affect >x% of the population or national spending should be put to a popular vote, so long as all costs are laid out and everything is in simple terms. Elected representatives are an ok idea, but have screwed us royally over time. They say one thing and do another and are highly susceptible to pressure from corporate and other lobbyists (that usually don't represent the will of the people).
8. I think you underestimate the general population. It's just the loudest that get the most attention and make everyone else look stupid. Most are either to apathetic or unsure of themselves to get involved.
9. So are most fair-minded people.
10. Agreed. As long as the intent isn't harmful.
11. Disagree. As long as people are peaceably assembled, there is no problem. Getting in the way qualifies as disturbing the peace (ie blocking roads, etc - things that would tend to create frustration and anger).
12. As long as you pay for the fish and do the slapping, go ahead.
13. Agreed. They served their purpose once upon a time, but now they just add a lot of extra cost for no real benefit - job pools are the most ludi
crous idea I've heard of...

Better without God, and happier too.
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17-10-2011, 06:17 PM
RE: My political viewpoints (you probably won't agree)!
(17-10-2011 05:37 PM)Zatamon Wrote:  You are quite welcome to them.

You may outgrow them yet ... or not, depending on what the future brings to you.

In the meantime --- enjoy! Big Grin

PS. It never stops amazing me how many people consistently campaign against their own self interest!

Their exploiters are truly brilliant!!!

You'll laugh at this one, you really will, and maybe I'm showing my naivety by even saying it but sometimes I prefer what I see as fair over what I see as beneficial to me.

I do understand that by saying that I make myself appear to be totally exploited/brainwashed but it is something I believe.

On the employment laws/trade union point: even though as someone at the bottom of a supermarket I may appear to have an interest in them staying it would actually make my life far easier and be far more beneficial to me if employment laws were relaxed and clarified and trade unions were abolished. I know it sounds crazy but in my current situation it would be fantastic for me.

Let me explain. I work in a supermarket that is part of a nationwide company with over 2000 stores. The store is split into 3 departments; ambient, fresh, services. My direct boss is the manager of services and I am a member of staff on the services department. My boss has the highest work ethic of anyone I have ever met, I have a reasonably good work ethic. Several of the staff from the fresh department don't actually give a shit, we are lucky if they do the bare minimum. What does this mean? Me, my boss and a few other more motivated staff have to come in and not only do our own jobs but make up for other peoples shortcomings. Because of the nature of how the supermarket is run and the varying priorities it is very hard to make someone accountable in a way that would survive a disciplinary process. Basically we are powerless to do anything about the situation. What is protecting these people who aren't pulling their weight meaning my workload is unfairly increased? Trade unions and employment laws! I get royally screwed by the trade union. If it wasn't for them we could fire all the deadwood and replace them with people who actually want to work and are prepared to put some effort in.

My other issues with trade unions are;
1) I think they are unnecessary. My uncle is a union rep and he reckons that most people who are unfairly dismissed could take their employers to court and win without any union help.
2) Most unions members are just as selfish as company bosses but just lie about it more. For example, last year my employers offered a pay increase that actually meant employees from several stores wouldn't receive a pay-rise at all (they had given a pay rise in one area but taken the equivalent amount off somewhere else for certain stores, mine included). The union voted, and agreed it. It seems the people from unaffected stores were quite happy with it as they weren't screwed over and didn't care one bit that other people were screwed as long as they got their pay-rise. Yet these are the same people who put forward this image of all sticking together and fighting for the little guy.

PS. To anyone who read the M.E.N today their front page story was about a fire-fighters strike. I'm not talking about the legitimacy of the strike but what did annoy me was that the fire department have begun training people up to cover the strike and the union bosses have actually come out and accused the fire department of disregarding peoples safety by doing this. I fail to see how training people up as best you can in preparation is worse than just not covering the strike at all. I also fail to see why the union is striking if public safety is such a high concern to them.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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17-10-2011, 06:19 PM (This post was last modified: 17-10-2011 06:22 PM by FSM_scot.)
RE: My political viewpoints (you probably won't agree)!
I know its just your opinion but ill put my response to some of them just for the fun of it Big Grin
Quote:I think that the current legal system is far from perfect but I have yet to see a suggestion that I prefer.
I completly agree its unfair and biased.

Quote:I think that employment laws should give less rights to workers
About the less rights to workers thing. As you work in a supermarket im guessing you earn minimum wage maybe slightly more than it. Would you be happy if they scrapped the minimum wage laws and you got paid £1 per hour? or they made you work in less safe conditions for much longer hours and if u didnt do it perfectly they sack you without paying you even for hours you worked ? because the laws protecting your rights were scraped, which employment laws do you feel should be done away with?

What do you have against trade unions?

Quote:I am hugely against political correctness
Just remember what you call political correctness used to be called not being offensive. its basic manners nothing more.
People who go on about "Political correctness gone mad" usually say it about a story they dont have the full facts about or about some bs story a paper put out to stir up some controversy.
As for the kind of jokes you mentioned i still laugh at them but remember there is an appropriate time and place for jokes and there are times when it isnt appropriate(these are the ones that you hear controversy over)

Quote:I am not a huge fan of democracy.
Democracy is far from perfect but id rather pick which asshole is incharge than have one forced on me. Look into some dictatorships and you'll see why.

Quote:I think voters need to be kept as out of politics as possible.
I think that, for the most part, it's not worth listening to the opinions of the general population.
If you want to know what happens in countries where this happens just have a look in the news about the arab spring or any country with dictators.

The governments here to serve you not the other way around.

Behold the power of the force!
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17-10-2011, 06:28 PM
 
RE: My political viewpoints (you probably won't agree)!
(17-10-2011 06:17 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(17-10-2011 05:37 PM)Zatamon Wrote:  You are quite welcome to them.

You may outgrow them yet ... or not, depending on what the future brings to you.

In the meantime --- enjoy! Big Grin

PS. It never stops amazing me how many people consistently campaign against their own self interest!

Their exploiters are truly brilliant!!!

You'll laugh at this one, you really will, and maybe I'm showing my naivety by even saying it but sometimes I prefer what I see as fair over what I see as beneficial to me.

I do understand that by saying that I make myself appear to be totally exploited/brainwashed but it is something I believe.

Hughsie, how shall I put this?

I detect sincerity in your voice but you see a very tiny picture of the whole world and all of human history.

There is a reason for everything, the fight did not just start when one of them hit back!

My advice: study history, look for patterns, discover cause-and-effect chains, look at the distribution of wealth and power and ask yourself: how did it become like that?

It took me 2 years to fully understand the world and I was almost 50 when I started looking.

Don’t generalize from the example of a very tiny mole-hill to the entire human species and the entire human history --- there is a lot of learning ahead of you and there are no shortcuts – you will have to make the effort.

If you do – the result will be inevitable: you will be just as cynical and depressed as I am.

Go for it! Smile
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17-10-2011, 06:34 PM (This post was last modified: 17-10-2011 06:58 PM by Hughsie.)
RE: My political viewpoints (you probably won't agree)!
Quote:About the less rights to workers thing. As you work in a supermarket im guessing you earn minimum wage maybe slightly more than it. Would you be happy if they scrapped the minimum wage laws and you got paid £1 per hour? or they made you work in less safe conditions for much longer hours and if u didnt do it perfectly they sack you without paying you even for hours you worked ? because the laws protecting your rights were scraped, which employment laws do you feel should be done away with?

What do you have against trade unions?

As far as trade unions goes have look at my previous post, I elaborate on the trade unions thing there (and have a reasonably impressive rant in the process Smile).

The employment rights wasn't thinking about pay and conditions, more the ability of employers to sack people. As per my previous post you can see that it in my interests for my employers to be able to sack people more easily but that is not the only thinking behind the idea. I actually think that sometimes, laws brought in to benefit people can be to their detriment.

For example. At my supermarket (which you are all probably sick of hearing about) after we hire someone we have three months during which we can sack people for any reason we want but after three months they are fully protected by law or company policy or something like that and they are basically untouchable unless they do something really bad. That was clearly designed to protect employees. On the surface it appears to benefit them but in reality it costs many people their jobs. Why? Because as I have already said we have a problem with deadwood, people who don't really pull their weight but aren't bad enough to fall foul of disciplinary procedures and increase the workload of people who actually give a shit. Do we want to risk more deadwood? NO! So when someone is approaching that three month mark if we aren't convinced that they will be a productive person then they are often let go. Most people take a while to adjust to the job, especially if it is their first job. So some people who are still adjusting to the job and may have become good members of staff are let go because of a rule that is supposed to protect them. We simply don't want to take any chances because if they do turn out to be useless we have to make up for it and our working lives become that bit harder.
(17-10-2011 06:28 PM)Zatamon Wrote:  Hughsie, how shall I put this?

I detect sincerity in your voice but you see a very tiny picture of the whole world and all of human history.

There is a reason for everything, the fight did not just start when one of them hit back!

My advice: study history, look for patterns, discover cause-and-effect chains, look at the distribution of wealth and power and ask yourself: how did it become like that?

It took me 2 years to fully understand the world and I was almost 50 when I started looking.

Don’t generalize from the example of a very tiny mole-hill to the entire human species and the entire human history --- there is a lot of learning ahead of you and there are no shortcuts – you will have to make the effort.

If you do – the result will be inevitable: you will be just as cynical and depressed as I am.

Go for it! Smile

I kinda hope my viewpoints do change in some way and will constantly search for new information to adapt them, not because I think that there is anything wrong with them but because I would hate to look back when I am old and think they I had achieved my world view at the age of 19. I'm sure there is more out there to discover.
Azaraith,

My opposition to voters being involved in politics stems mostly from the belief that most people don't actually know what is good for them (ironic I know as some people who accuse me of the same thing after the OP).

Take marijuana for example. I think there would be nothing better for England than the legalisation of marijuana. The economy would get a boost, tourism would go through the roof, the government would make billions in tax, thousands of drug dealers would be instantly out of business and police funding could be diverted to fighting serious crime. I know it will never happen though as it would be political suicide. Any Prime Minister who passed such a law would be branded soft on drugs and would lose the next election to his opponent who would instantly re-criminalise it, if he lasted that long.

This is also where my disdain for democracy stems from. If you had a benevolent dictator (or benevolent shared dictatorship) then they could legalise marijuana despite the unpopularity and probably make the country a far better place.

As far as the democracy/dictatorship thing goes I tend to think that a 'good' dictatorship is better than a 'good' democracy. However a 'bad' dictatorship is far worse than a 'bad' democracy. I'm still unsure as to where I would draw the line between the two.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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17-10-2011, 07:00 PM
RE: My political viewpoints (you probably won't agree)!
I didnt see that post you must have posted it when i was still typing mines.

About those people you work with my advice is complain about them the more complaints they get the more likely the company is to get rid of them. Ive seen it happen several times at my former work we used to get people that when they were working with me or someone else our work load doubled because they were taking the piss.

Employers will always find a way to get rid of people. I was sacked in a completly unfair (illegal) way for reasons that they made up and kept changing and i had proof of it. They also refused to give me 3 weeks worth of pay. I had to threaten them with a tribunal to get it from them. So im glad i had the employment rights that i did.

I would advise you look into why we have the employment rights that we do now and what it was like before we had them.
It sounds like you have a pretty shitty union. allowing some wages to be increased but not for others even though its the same job.

I agree with the Fire fighters union. How can it be safe having people when people with no experience and nowhere near the level of training that firefighters have, trying to do the job that firefighters do. Its a disaster waiting to happen.

Behold the power of the force!
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