My refutation of Sye Ten's presuppositional apologetics
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13-02-2016, 12:42 AM
My refutation of Sye Ten's presuppositional apologetics
The entire position depends on God revealing stuff to us. I have not gotten this revelation, because if I did, I would have known. If my worldview is absurd without God, I have no way of knowing if the Bible is valid, so the verse saying that everyone knows God exists is pointless.

Truth seeker.
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13-02-2016, 12:53 AM
RE: My refutation of Sye Ten's presuppositional apologetics
(13-02-2016 12:42 AM)diddo97 Wrote:  The entire position depends on God revealing stuff to us. I have not gotten this revelation, because if I did, I would have known. If my worldview is absurd without God, I have no way of knowing if the Bible is valid, so the verse saying that everyone knows God exists is pointless.
Sye Ten Bruggencate is a cheap, sleazy charlatan. His whole method relies on the ignorance of his marks about fundamental issues of knowledge. He also relies on the gish gallop extensively. He is not at all interested in learning the answers to the questions he asks, he's already made up his mind a priori that they are false. why would anyone take him seriously?

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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13-02-2016, 12:57 AM (This post was last modified: 13-02-2016 01:01 AM by diddo97.)
RE: My refutation of Sye Ten's presuppositional apologetics
(13-02-2016 12:53 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  
(13-02-2016 12:42 AM)diddo97 Wrote:  The entire position depends on God revealing stuff to us. I have not gotten this revelation, because if I did, I would have known. If my worldview is absurd without God, I have no way of knowing if the Bible is valid, so the verse saying that everyone knows God exists is pointless.
Sye Ten Bruggencate is a cheap, sleazy charlatan. His whole method relies on the ignorance of his marks about fundamental issues of knowledge. He also relies on the gish gallop extensively. He is not at all interested in learning the answers to the questions he asks, he's already made up his mind a priori that they are false. why would anyone take him seriously?

The problem with most answers I've seen to this is that they play right into the hands of presups. "How do you know that? Drinking BeverageDrinking BeverageDrinking BeverageDrinking Beverage", all the way down. However, it falls flat when you realize that it all comes down to what I said above, He has several arguments going at once that don't connect and yet rely on each other.

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13-02-2016, 01:15 AM
RE: My refutation of Sye Ten's presuppositional apologetics
(13-02-2016 12:57 AM)diddo97 Wrote:  
(13-02-2016 12:53 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  Sye Ten Bruggencate is a cheap, sleazy charlatan. His whole method relies on the ignorance of his marks about fundamental issues of knowledge. He also relies on the gish gallop extensively. He is not at all interested in learning the answers to the questions he asks, he's already made up his mind a priori that they are false. why would anyone take him seriously?

The problem with most answers I've seen to this is that they play right into the hands of presups. "How do you know that Drinking BeverageDrinking BeverageDrinking BeverageDrinking Beverage", all the way down. However, it falls flat when you realize that it all comes down to what I said above, He has several arguments going at once that don't connect and yet rely on each other.

The problem I see is that his opponents are all skeptics and they are completely philosophically unarmed against his tactics. I watched a video the other day where a skeptic went up against 3 presuppers (not Sye but using his same tactics) and he actually said that he loves his wife but he can't be sure that she really exists. He was putty in their hands.

Here's what I'd say to him:

Sye: How do you account for knowledge without God?

Me: I account for knowledge by reference to the axioms, the primacy of existence and the objective theory of concepts. Now I'd like to ask you a question. Since knowledge is conceptual in nature, and Christianity has no theory of concepts how do you account for knowledge. What does the Bible have to say on the subject. According to the Bible, what is a concept? How are they formed? How are they integrated into wider concepts? What is the relationship between concepts and reality? How is a concept validated? What is the relationship between a concept and its definition. What is universality and how does it relate to concept formation?

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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13-02-2016, 03:12 AM
RE: My refutation of Sye Ten's presuppositional apologetics
(13-02-2016 01:15 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  
(13-02-2016 12:57 AM)diddo97 Wrote:  The problem with most answers I've seen to this is that they play right into the hands of presups. "How do you know that Drinking BeverageDrinking BeverageDrinking BeverageDrinking Beverage", all the way down. However, it falls flat when you realize that it all comes down to what I said above, He has several arguments going at once that don't connect and yet rely on each other.

The problem I see is that his opponents are all skeptics and they are completely philosophically unarmed against his tactics. I watched a video the other day where a skeptic went up against 3 presuppers (not Sye but using his same tactics) and he actually said that he loves his wife but he can't be sure that she really exists. He was putty in their hands.

Here's what I'd say to him:

Sye: How do you account for knowledge without God?

Me: I account for knowledge by reference to the axioms, the primacy of existence and the objective theory of concepts. Now I'd like to ask you a question. Since knowledge is conceptual in nature, and Christianity has no theory of concepts how do you account for knowledge. What does the Bible have to say on the subject. According to the Bible, what is a concept? How are they formed? How are they integrated into wider concepts? What is the relationship between concepts and reality? How is a concept validated? What is the relationship between a concept and its definition. What is universality and how does it relate to concept formation?

Why are you asking me this? I don't believe in the Bible as an ultimate arbiter of truth. Heart

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13-02-2016, 03:39 AM
RE: My refutation of Sye Ten's presuppositional apologetics
Apologists are their own best refutation. A loving and all-mighty deity needs mortal minions to justify its behavior the way oysters need tap dance lessons.

---
Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
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13-02-2016, 03:40 AM
RE: My refutation of Sye Ten's presuppositional apologetics
(13-02-2016 03:39 AM)Paleophyte Wrote:  Apologists are their own best refutation. A loving and all-mighty deity needs mortal minions to justify its behavior the way oysters need tap dance lessons.

Perhaps, but not responding properly to their arguments risks you falling into their trap.

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13-02-2016, 04:30 AM
RE: My refutation of Sye Ten's presuppositional apologetics
(13-02-2016 03:40 AM)diddo97 Wrote:  
(13-02-2016 03:39 AM)Paleophyte Wrote:  Apologists are their own best refutation. A loving and all-mighty deity needs mortal minions to justify its behavior the way oysters need tap dance lessons.

Perhaps, but not responding properly to their arguments risks you falling into their trap.

Ignoring their rhetoric is the proper response. In a world of Gwyneth Paltrow and video games, there ain't no time for Sye. Big Grin

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13-02-2016, 05:23 AM
RE: My refutation of Sye Ten's presuppositional apologetics
Repeat back to any presup person their own words and replace the word god with "magical dildo" or simply physically assault the person and tell them that god is revealing truth to them using your fists of fury.

God uses morse code. He's not up on all the tech stuff yet.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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13-02-2016, 05:39 AM
RE: My refutation of Sye Ten's presuppositional apologetics
WASTE OF TIME.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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