My short time on Suscipe Domine
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01-01-2014, 02:01 AM
RE: My short time on Suscipe Domine
(01-01-2014 01:49 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  SD has no standards.

I thought SD meant standard deviation.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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01-01-2014, 08:28 AM
RE: My short time on Suscipe Domine
(31-12-2013 05:53 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Surprisingly we agree on the new Pope. I dislike him almost as much as you do and for some of the same reasons. He is disingenuous and seems to be playing very loose with the stated dogma for photo ops and headlines. Granted we do disagree what would be an improvement but that's life isn't it.

I don't dislike him. While I am uncomfortable with some of what Pope Francis has said and done, he is still my pope. He has my loyalty and obedience.
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01-01-2014, 08:36 AM
RE: My short time on Suscipe Domine
(31-12-2013 05:55 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(31-12-2013 05:46 PM)Jayne Wrote:  So how often do people around here change their mind on deeply held positions?

I've seen many people change their minds in the face of good evidence or argument. I've done it myself.

The beauty of holding yourself to intellectual honesty is being able to admit when you are wrong about a belief and change it to better reflect the best explanation, not indoctrination or delusion. You freely admit that you and others at SD refuse to even entertain a position that contradicts your dogmas. That is simply sad.

I am starting with a difference set of epistemological assumptions from you. Catholic dogmas are axiomatic propositions in my thought system. They can't be challenged by evidence because they are evidence.

I am just as intellectually honest as anybody here, if judged within my own thought system, rather than by yours.
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01-01-2014, 08:39 AM
RE: My short time on Suscipe Domine
(31-12-2013 05:55 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, Jayne, many of us have listened, considered, pondered, thought, felt, and decided.

Just because I have determined that Catholicism is not the truth does not mean I did not consider it with an open mind.

How is this different from me? I have listened, considered, pondered, thought, felt and decided. I have determined Catholicism is the truth. I wasn't born believing it.
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01-01-2014, 08:40 AM
RE: My short time on Suscipe Domine
(01-01-2014 08:36 AM)Jayne Wrote:  
(31-12-2013 05:55 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  I've seen many people change their minds in the face of good evidence or argument. I've done it myself.

The beauty of holding yourself to intellectual honesty is being able to admit when you are wrong about a belief and change it to better reflect the best explanation, not indoctrination or delusion. You freely admit that you and others at SD refuse to even entertain a position that contradicts your dogmas. That is simply sad.

I am starting with a difference set of epistemological assumptions from you. Catholic dogmas are axiomatic propositions in my thought system. They can't be challenged by evidence because they are evidence.

I am just as intellectually honest as anybody here, if judged within my own thought system, rather than by yours.

No, axioms are not evidence - they are assumptions. Drinking Beverage

That is called faith. You believe those things to be true without evidence.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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01-01-2014, 08:41 AM
RE: My short time on Suscipe Domine
(31-12-2013 05:57 PM)morondog Wrote:  Still, one of the things that I find interesting is learning *why* other people believe the things they do. And because I'm a bastard I like to ask them questions to shake 'em up - the way I learn is after all, by questioning my own assumptions and beliefs, so I don't see this as being nasty, I see this as 'but have you thought of this?'...

I'm fine with that. I don't see it as being nasty either.
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01-01-2014, 08:44 AM
RE: My short time on Suscipe Domine
(01-01-2014 08:39 AM)Jayne Wrote:  
(31-12-2013 05:55 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, Jayne, many of us have listened, considered, pondered, thought, felt, and decided.

Just because I have determined that Catholicism is not the truth does not mean I did not consider it with an open mind.

How is this different from me? I have listened, considered, pondered, thought, felt and decided. I have determined Catholicism is the truth. I wasn't born believing it.

I didn't say it was different. I was responding to your statement:
"This is a perfect example of a person who is not the least bit open to having his (or her) ideas challenged. What he (or she) believes is "reality" and those who disagree believe a fairy-tale. A person who talks like this does not listen so it makes no difference that people are allowed to disagree without being banned."

You seem to assume that that person is closed-minded, while the reality is that that person has come to a conclusion based on evidence and reason.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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01-01-2014, 08:45 AM
RE: My short time on Suscipe Domine
(31-12-2013 06:05 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
Quote:My impression of Jayne over many years of seeing her posts is that she will change her mind to curry favour and then nuance her views to cause controversy again. She enjoys manipulating people. It's her thing and she likes the attention. She is a huge grandstander.

Wow. Is that you? Angel

It is Greg's perception of me. He doesn't like me, so he needs to find some way to explain it to himself when I say something he agrees with. I think that he is basically wrong, although I suppose that I do like some attention. I don't like being ignored.
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01-01-2014, 08:49 AM
RE: My short time on Suscipe Domine
(31-12-2013 05:46 PM)Jayne Wrote:  So how often do people around here change their mind on deeply held positions?

We get some people here who are sitting on the fence about their beliefs. And guess what often makes them decide that they don't believe? Christians who come here and try to convert. There are so many rude and insulting Christians, it belies everything people thought the religion was supposed to embody.

I thought what happened to KC over there was a lot worse than the dirty words one encounters here. He came to learn from you, and ended up being asked about his beliefs and then was belittled - no actual conversation, he learned nothing except that he stepped into something unpleasant.

To me, that is a lot worse than people here employing a vocabulary that is not pious. If there is a god, and if he has any sense of justice, he is not going to like self righteous snobs who chase off people who come to learn about him.

Just saying.

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01-01-2014, 08:50 AM
RE: My short time on Suscipe Domine
(31-12-2013 06:41 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(31-12-2013 05:56 PM)Jayne Wrote:  Sorry, I've got a party to go to. I'll check back in tomorrow.

Let us know how it was. Do SD Catholics drink as much as regular ones? Consider

Happy new year!

The party was great. My thanks to you and to all who expressed New Year's wishes.

The traditional Catholic position has been expressed by Hilaire Belloc:
Quote:Wherever the Catholic sun doth shine,
There’s always laughter and good red wine.
At least I’ve always found it so.
Benedicamus Domino!

We are all about the partying.
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