My short time on Suscipe Domine
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04-01-2014, 07:17 AM
RE: My short time on Suscipe Domine
(04-01-2014 03:30 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(04-01-2014 03:16 AM)Othmar Wrote:  Though the original issue was a lot less black and white, and more about a paranoid pope rather than the actual science, there are actually a lot of people in those circles who think that admission was an error. Geocentrism is a really common opinion in traditionalist catholicism. Not as common as creationism, but still...

Quite a few geocentrists in this topic.

Oh my dear fuck. They don't actually have a 35 page thread discussing this? Oh my dear fuck they do. ... Hobo

Oh yes, they're serious about this shit. The Bible is the ultimate science book, and all of modern "science" is nothing but a vast conspiracy to destroy religion. The spectacular success of science in describing reality, making predictions that actually come true, and designing technology that actually works -- that's just a fucking coincidence.

The champion of geocentrism, Robert Sungenis, has a fake degree from some do-it-yourself online university, and has written several large books defending geocentrism. Because those books are full of scientific-sounding jargon, his followers lap it all up. I don't post on SD, but there was a similar thread on Fisheaters that I was involved in. They accused me of "nothing but ad hominem", so I layed out 5 or 6 pieces of evidence -- observed reality that directly contradicts geocentrism -- things like geostationary satellites (which can't possibly stay up there unless the earth is rotating -- yes, these people deny that the earth rotates). One of them came back with "I can explain all that in two words -- General Relativity" (???!!!???). I'm like WTF? GR says the earth doesn't rotate? It's pointless to even try to argue with these people. The Bible is right about everything, and they're not going to let little things like facts get in the way of that.
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04-01-2014, 07:24 AM
RE: My short time on Suscipe Domine
(04-01-2014 07:13 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(04-01-2014 07:00 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  I think you're misunderstanding what dogma is. When the Pope advises the Bishops on this or that, that's not dogma. That's just the Pope advising the Bishops. Likewise, Vatican II was a "pastoral council", meaning that it could not change dogma, or define any new dogma. It just revised certain practices (how things are done, as opposed to basic beliefs).

Dogma is the body of "truths" (i.e., beliefs) that all Catholics are required to believe. When something is declared to be dogma (which is actually fairly rare), you must accept it and believe it if you are a Catholic. Not to do so is considered a grave sin.

EK made a snarky comment a few pages back, questioning how something could be an "eternal truth" when it was only declared in 1870 or whatever. Keeping in mind here that I'm basically on his side -- I think all these "eternal truths" are bullshit -- if you look at it from the Church's viewpoint, the truths are eternal, but we haven't always been aware of them. Kind of like gravity. It existed before Newton defined it and quantified it in the 17th century. He didn't invent gravity, he just discovered an intelligible way to describe it. And from the Church's point of view, they didn't just make up the dogma of the Immaculate Conception a hundred years or so ago. It was always true -- that's just when they decided to make it binding on all Catholics to accept it and believe it.

Yeah, but what happened to purgatory? It was a given when I grew up, and they abolished it.

Not a chance. You're probably thinking of Limbo (where unbaptized babies go -- it's kind of a suburb of Hell -- Hell without the suffering). Church teaching on Limbo has waffled over the years, and was never dogma anyway. But the teaching on Purgatory hasn't changed a bit. They don't emphasize it in Church anymore, but it's still in the Catechism. Purgatory is the "purification station" outside of Heaven. Nobody gets into Heaven until they are squeaky clean, and hardly anybody dies that way. That's what Purgatory is for.
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04-01-2014, 07:50 AM
RE: My short time on Suscipe Domine
(04-01-2014 07:24 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(04-01-2014 07:13 AM)Dom Wrote:  Yeah, but what happened to purgatory? It was a given when I grew up, and they abolished it.

Not a chance. You're probably thinking of Limbo (where unbaptized babies go -- it's kind of a suburb of Hell -- Hell without the suffering). Church teaching on Limbo has waffled over the years, and was never dogma anyway. But the teaching on Purgatory hasn't changed a bit. They don't emphasize it in Church anymore, but it's still in the Catechism. Purgatory is the "purification station" outside of Heaven. Nobody gets into Heaven until they are squeaky clean, and hardly anybody dies that way. That's what Purgatory is for.

Oh yeah, it was limbo. Limbo upset me when I was a kid and played a role in my deconversion when I was 10. I thought it abominable to stick babies there, but the nuns insisted it was fair and right.

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Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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04-01-2014, 09:54 AM
RE: My short time on Suscipe Domine
I got this.


"Sorry guest,you are banned from using this forum!
Take a hike ya atheist troll"




too bad i changed proxies,tho

I don't really like going outside.
It's too damn "peopley" out there....
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04-01-2014, 12:26 PM (This post was last modified: 04-01-2014 06:21 PM by Othmar.)
RE: My short time on Suscipe Domine
(04-01-2014 05:56 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(04-01-2014 04:20 AM)Othmar Wrote:  I may perhaps daresay I never really believed in God, but that I desperately wanted and tried to believe in God. And that a part of me still wants to. I really don't know what I am at this moment.

My experience with religion hasn't been unequivocally bad, and there are a lot of things that appeal to (parts of) me. The whole Suscipe Domine business was kinda the last straw, though.

Of course there are things that appeal to part of you, you had some real reasons for needing to believe. It's a crutch you don't have anymore, and sometimes you feel that you still need it. But you really don't, and the longer you go, the less you will miss it. Once the blinders are off and you see the amazing display of reality, your life will fill up with other things.
Yes, I suppose crutch is the right term. University life has been a lot more pleasant as well. It also widened the gap, as working with the historical method just won't mesh with the SD view on history.
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04-01-2014, 05:45 PM
RE: My short time on Suscipe Domine
I wonder how the "traditional Catholics" over on SD are reacting to the poll result that shows Pope Francis with an approval rating of 92% among American Catholics. Consider

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-01-2014, 05:49 PM
RE: My short time on Suscipe Domine
(04-01-2014 07:24 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(04-01-2014 07:13 AM)Dom Wrote:  Yeah, but what happened to purgatory? It was a given when I grew up, and they abolished it.

Not a chance. You're probably thinking of Limbo (where unbaptized babies go -- it's kind of a suburb of Hell -- Hell without the suffering). Church teaching on Limbo has waffled over the years, and was never dogma anyway. But the teaching on Purgatory hasn't changed a bit. They don't emphasize it in Church anymore, but it's still in the Catechism. Purgatory is the "purification station" outside of Heaven. Nobody gets into Heaven until they are squeaky clean, and hardly anybody dies that way. That's what Purgatory is for.

Don' make no never mind. Got me a Plenary Indulgence on eBay.
I get ta go straight through. My bills are paid. Weeping

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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04-01-2014, 05:49 PM
RE: My short time on Suscipe Domine
(04-01-2014 05:45 PM)Chas Wrote:  I wonder how the "traditional Catholics" over on SD are reacting to the poll result that shows Pope Francis with an approval rating of 92% among American Catholics. Consider

well, it's obviously a sign of the end times. Rolleyes

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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04-01-2014, 08:01 PM
RE: My short time on Suscipe Domine
(03-01-2014 07:55 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  So I read through the NihilistInDenial's intro thread over there and once again I am fucking totally confused. Not about how an obviously intelligent, articulate and affable person with a keen sense of humor would allow themselves to be subservient and subject to some Jim Jones wannabe narcissistic power-hungry asshole who thinks he's the motherfucking Pope, that shit happens every day. I'm confused about this post of Jayne's:


Quote from: Recovering NOer on December 20, 2013, 05:12:38 PM
You saw THIS I take it?

I am pretty appalled that these people think that my husband having cancer is a situation that calls for mockery. :o


Now I know we can be insensitive assholes, I mean MuffinMouth could even make a decent living at it, but I can't find what she's talking about.


IIRC she was taking our general remarks about some thread that was dedicated to them offering prayers to each other over this or that personally.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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04-01-2014, 08:38 PM (This post was last modified: 04-01-2014 08:52 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: My short time on Suscipe Domine
So I'm browsing through their ban reason thread and I'm like what the fuck?!? I may not have known what the Inquisition was all about before, but I'm starting to get the gist of it. These fuckers ain't Catholics, they ain't even Christians, they're goddam motherfucking Kaesekopfians. ... I've heard of sheeples before, but I ain't never seen 'em in the wild. Hobo

It's like I'm on safari and shit. Big Grin

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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