My short time on Suscipe Domine
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31-12-2013, 10:14 PM
RE: My short time on Suscipe Domine
(31-12-2013 01:29 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Our attack dogs (Taq-dogs Laughat ) are much more eloquent.

BIRD. Attack BIRD, dammit.


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31-12-2013, 10:24 PM
RE: My short time on Suscipe Domine
(31-12-2013 04:38 PM)Jayne Wrote:  It is not fair to judge another forum by the standards of this one. By SD's standards, this is the rude and horrible forum. What makes your standards right?

Hi Jayne, and thanks again for your very reasonable defense of KC in the final posts of his thread over there.

We may be rude and horrible -- and I just might be one of the worst offenders on that account -- but if you look closely, you will find that there is a rigorous standard of intellectual honesty here that, sadly, I find the SD forum to be absolutely devoid of.


Welcome to the forum, I am truly pleased that you came here. Thumbsup

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


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31-12-2013, 10:27 PM
RE: My short time on Suscipe Domine
(31-12-2013 05:09 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  Nobody claims the standards are right. This is a rude and horrible forum. That's why I like it here. It's where good and loving people can come and exercise their demon's and let loose without shame. We are loving and rude and good and horrible. We are human beings and we accept these things about ourselves and if you wanna judge, then judge. No one here is gonna stop you.


Funny Spelling Error is Funny. Thumbsup

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


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31-12-2013, 10:31 PM
RE: My short time on Suscipe Domine
(31-12-2013 10:27 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(31-12-2013 05:09 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  Nobody claims the standards are right. This is a rude and horrible forum. That's why I like it here. It's where good and loving people can come and exercise their demon's and let loose without shame. We are loving and rude and good and horrible. We are human beings and we accept these things about ourselves and if you wanna judge, then judge. No one here is gonna stop you.


Funny Spelling Error is Funny. Thumbsup

I am inclined to believe that was intentional.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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31-12-2013, 10:54 PM (This post was last modified: 01-01-2014 01:14 AM by Taqiyya Mockingbird.)
RE: My short time on Suscipe Domine
(31-12-2013 05:23 PM)Jayne Wrote:  Just to clarify, I am not here to talk about Catholicism or preach at people. While I would be overjoyed if any of you became Catholic and am willing to discuss it privately, I do not consider this forum a suitable place for doing so.

Very fair. On a side note, it would be rather pointless to do so anyway. We welcome your participation here. And your up-front honesty.


Quote:I am here because, if people are going to keep criticizing SD on this forum, then I want to defend it. So the case that I am making is that we are no more close-minded on SD than anyone else.

Fair enough. I imagine that there will be a great deal of debate on that point, and I suspect that you will be bringing a great deal more *real* open-mindedness to the table than many of your compatriots who showed up in KC's thread.

Might I suggest that we come to terms with exactly what "open-mindedness" means to start with? Kindly give this short video your consideration -- I promise that it won't be boring or preachy, but I think that the ideas it clarifies are fundamental to all of us having a solid basis for discussion here:





Quote:How many people here think that you are wrong about what you believe?

I might suggest that the better question would be, how many of us are open to changing our understanding of the world in response to new evidence. Would you agree?



Quote: I would guess that at least 90% of you believe what you believe.

I am not sure I have said it here in this forum, but IRL I am famous for saying I always reserve the Right to be Wrong. In the end, stubbornness over "belief" comes down to egotism, IMO. I might tentatively agree to a statement that I "believe what I believe", but I am always open to new information and evidence.


Quote:Almost as many believe that those who disagree with you are wrong. And I expect a very small minority are open to changing their minds about any of their strong beliefs.

It seems to me that you may be casting atheism as some sort of belief. Let me clear away that misinterpretation right away. A-theism is non- belief in any particular deity. You don't believe in Ball or Ganesh; in that sense you are an atheist as well. I just believe in one less deity than you do.


Quote:The only thing that is different about SD is that we openly say that we are right and those who disagree with us are wrong.

I don't think you have quite availed yourself of all of the information at hand yet. I have found the membership of this forum to be quite open to -- and accepting of -- for example, many teachings of the man we know of as "the Buddha" which, as many people do not know, are universal and "catholic" in the true sense of the word: for example, the "Golden Rule" reciprocal ethics of the Veludvareyya Sutta (Discourse to the People of Bamboo Gate).

I think that you might do well to consider that to "openly say that we are right and those who disagree with us are wrong" is the very antithesis of [EDIT: corrected because, as Chas pointed out, I bolloxed this up: closed] open-mindedness. No personal slight intended, but something I would like to see you consider.

Quote:We openly say that we are not prepared to listen to people who challenge our beliefs.

The difference here is that we ARE prepared to listen to challenges to any beliefs we might hold (in my own case, to the teachings of the man we know of as "the Buddha"), and peoples to consideration of others' beliefs.

Atheism is not a belief in and of itself, but anyone who wishes to challenge our non-belief in any of their beliefs, we are open to it and willing to entertain anything they wish to say. In that respect, I see this forum as leaps and bounds above SD on the intellectual honesty scale. AGAIN, no slight toward you intended.



Quote:We are just more honest than most people about such things.


While I applaud the honesty of your admitting to what I see as your collective intellectual dishonesty, I nonetheless do not see that as much of a virtue.


AGAIN, no personal slight intended.


I haven't read this whole thread and I am addressing your posts one at a time, but I hope everyone here is making you feel welcome.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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31-12-2013, 10:57 PM
RE: My short time on Suscipe Domine
(31-12-2013 10:54 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  I think that you might do well to consider that to "openly say that we are right and those who disagree with us are wrong" is the very antithesis of closed-mindedness.

Um, no.

It is the antithesis of open mindedness. Or it is the apotheosis of closed mindedness.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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31-12-2013, 10:59 PM
Question RE: My short time on Suscipe Domine
(31-12-2013 05:26 PM)Jayne Wrote:  
(31-12-2013 05:09 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  It's where good and loving people can come and exercise their demon's and let loose without shame.

Where I come from people are more into exorcising demons. But maybe you do exercise demons here. I'll watch out for that. Smile

OH, you saw that, too. I couldn't stop laughing.....


What's particularly funny about it for me, is that once upon a time I was working some job, and some idiot supervisor came over and tried to give me a hassle about something he really had no idea what he was talking about, and after the whole mess was done, one of my co-workers leaned over and said to me "Don't mind him, he's just 'exercising his authority', to see if it's still there".


So of course, being a visually-oriented person, this idea of "exercising demons" gave me a preposterous mental picture of someone taking a gaggle of demons out for a ride, or a walk, or a romp at the dog park.


Silly, yes. Oh well...

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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31-12-2013, 11:02 PM
RE: My short time on Suscipe Domine
(31-12-2013 05:29 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Uh oh, KC. You've brought some of them back with you... Blink

LOL -- couldn't find the Galaxy Quest clip about dragging mines....

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Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


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31-12-2013, 11:06 PM
RE: My short time on Suscipe Domine
(31-12-2013 05:46 PM)Jayne Wrote:  
(31-12-2013 05:30 PM)kim Wrote:  We are. Drinking Beverage

So how often do people around here change their mind on deeply held positions?

Welcome Jayne, nice to have you here. Smile

I think it's totally possible for people to change their views -- I think a lot here aren't sure.

But at the same time most Catholics I've known don't follow all the church's teachings -- many for example use birth control, or have had IVF, or support the death penalty. . I think that's the most telling thing about the Catholic church today. The majority were indoctrinated cafeteria Catholics, without a clue about what being Roman Catholic actually means.

I would go so far as to suggest if most Catholics understood the church they'd leave it for another religion that better aligns with their core beliefs.

Come to think maybe that's why so many Catholics were drawn to the Lutheran church. Consider

In any event enjoy your stay.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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31-12-2013, 11:30 PM
RE: My short time on Suscipe Domine
(31-12-2013 05:40 PM)Jayne Wrote:  
(31-12-2013 05:28 PM)Foxen Wrote:  There is a huge difference in understanding reality and placing one's faith in a fairy tale religion.

Thank you for the support.

I don't think you really mean that.


Quote:This is a perfect example of a person who is not the least bit open to having his (or her) ideas challenged.

I am not convinced that you have examined all of the possibilities here. In fact I am quite certain that, if you were to press Foxen to defend his/her statement, that (s)he would respond with cogent and rational arguments to defend this idea of catholicism as a fairy tale religion. I also think that if you remain civil in your discourse, so will almost everyone else here, including me.


Quote:What he (or she) believes is "reality" and those who disagree believe a fairy-tale.

I am not convinced that that is a fair characterization of Foxen's position. Foxen seems to be specifically addressing the RCC (and, in the case of our discussion here, the "traditionalist" RCC) position and claims-set.


Quote: A person who talks like this does not listen

I would beg to differ, and counter that what you say describes your forum, as you explain it, (not ours), perfectly.

Again, no personal disrespect or slight intended.


Quote: so it makes no difference that people are allowed to disagree without being banned.

Oh, but it does. Absolutely everyone who comes here gets their say, forever and ever, as long as this forum shall last. They can state and take their case as far as they can, as far as it will go, without fear of being censored or silenced for dishonest or capricious reasons.

You come here, you are GUARANTEED to get your say, your "day in court".


But you know what? I might be a rather outspoken atheist, but here in this place there are plenty of other atheists/members who will call me out whenever they think I am out of bounds, "out of control", full of shit, or whatever. And that's a Good Thing.

BTW, you earned my respect by busting xputridsux's balls in KC's thread over his over-the-top fanaticism. Thumbsup


Not that *my* respect carries any weight anywhere, mind you.... Big Grin

I really am glad you came here though, did I mention that?

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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