My thoughts on this debate
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04-02-2014, 08:49 PM
My thoughts on this debate
After watching the debate I must say it was better then I expected. Ken could not execute his trap despite his debating experience. I think bill did well. Though he should have been more constant and he should have kept on the topic of the flood. However I more talking about Ken Ham. I never heard him debate and comparing his presentation with Bill's, Bill won hands down. However neither of them one the debate. Bill should have attacked the flood only but it looks like bill was here more to engage curiosity then debate. Bill showed what science actually is and how great it is to challange science. Ken just kept saying historical science and observational science. He also had some tricks up his sleeve that I want to address.

The first is the problems with dating. I'd like to point out that when it came to ham's first presentation that he put sources, however the second one on dating he didn't. He was sure happy about the scientist that worked with him at AIG and the civic biology( both in which i'll get to later). Why do it ken? If ken ham read this he'd understand the different dates.[1] So ken ham gave sources to what he knew no one could refute and gave no sources for someone who can. Alright just had to say that now onto the rest.

So what about Ken's scientist? They are legitimate. So does that mean ken ham is right about what he says? No, it doesn't. You can all the scientist you want but it still won't prove your point. Also Ken constantly says "well they have done research on our page," and what I say is who cares. Are they in any scientific peer reviewed journals. No, they aren't, because they can't use the bible in science because science doesn't deal with religion. Also if your pages where true why not. If ken ham could prove that the earth was 6000 years old cool guess it is. But knowing that they would get ripped if they tried peer review, they decide to act if there page is a peer review website instead. Also did they use the bible to find scientific findings. No. I mean look at the Muslim they used the quran for astronomy and even today we use their ideas ( the quran is still wrong though).

I have also noticed what ken ham is moving towards, PRESUPPOSITIONAL APOLOGETICS. Thats right he trying to go there. It seems that ken has had his claims debunked to much. Hell I'm still in high school and I can even debunk his claims. So in reality he would really like to move in that direction but if he did he would have lost automatically and showed bill was better. However he did say that only reason, the uniformity of nature, and logic can be only understood bibically. Strange I don't remember a bible verse that says those three things.

Also another thing that bothered me was Kens observational vs historical science. I wish he knew the scientific defenition of observation. In reality its watching,perceiving, and or noticing. If he knew that noticing something meant observational science he would have clearly said witnessed science. However ken doesn't know that eye witness testimony is the worst evidence ever. Take this for example. A women see a crime and murder. She is the eye witness. However when she describes the man she said he was pale with a white hood and black jeans and smiling while killing the person. However she then goes and says the killer is actually JEFF THE KILLER. But we all know he is a work of fiction. Thats an eye witness. However people who have never seen the murder use dna and forensics and find out that the pale skin was really a mask and the killer was instead a gang member named joe witson. So in this situation historical was better then "observational".

The last thing that pissed me off was the evolution was racist and the bible wasn't. When in reality its the opposite. Darwin wrote the evolution of man to make everyone equal. Read darwins sarcred cause. And the bible was used to enslave blacks. I my self am black and never read once that slavery was caused by evolution. Also the bible was used to justify segregation. I wish that Ken Ham meet the Black Hebrew Isrealites, then I think he will have to reconsider. At this point I said (if you can mind my language) you are a FUCKING lair ken and you know nothing of the pains that blacks went through because the slave owners used your FUCKING bible as a justification for doing so. Stop being a bloke of stupidity ken and read.

Also on bill america isn't the most scientific country. That's why many countrys are beating us. Its the reason I want to move to japan. Sorry america there are smart people but dumb ones as well. And sadly I'm one of the dumb ones. But i try my best to be as smart as i can unlike people like Ken Hams followers.

This is my view of ken ham.
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04-02-2014, 09:48 PM
RE: My thoughts on this debate
Nye did pretty good, better than Hitches or Harris would have done.

Hitchen's would have polarised people and only have preached to the choir
Harris comes off as elitist, smug.
Neil Tyson is not the same colour as God, Jesus and Santa Claus.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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04-02-2014, 10:43 PM
RE: My thoughts on this debate
I'm watching it right now at http://www.billnye.com/ . Ham's repeated use of the phrase "molecules to man" is driving me nuts!

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04-02-2014, 10:58 PM
RE: My thoughts on this debate
My biggest annoyance in there was the near constant referring to the Bible with just nothing else but "the Bible says". I didn't think they seriously did that in formal debates, I was expecting at least an attempt to not sound like he was going solely on the thing.

"Bill, did you know there's a book...?"
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04-02-2014, 11:25 PM
RE: My thoughts on this debate
There are a number of great arguments Nye is making. He is doing a good job with them, so far (still currently watching it). But a number of his points if doesn't seem to explain fully why it matters. I don't know that he notices, because he's use to talking with people who know the background information to understand what he is getting at. In some cases he could have brought up fewer points, and spent more time on those. But still over all good.

But Ham, his only real argument so far is, "But the bible says...".

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04-02-2014, 11:40 PM
RE: My thoughts on this debate
Ham's biggest argument is, "where you there"?

My question to Ham when he brings up the bible as evidence is, "Where you there when the bible was written"?

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05-02-2014, 03:40 AM
RE: My thoughts on this debate
i loved the irony of :
"there a hundreds of dating methods that don't agree with each other" billion, million, ergo its unreliable !

There are thousands of religious texts that don't agree with each other Ken Derp....

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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05-02-2014, 04:25 AM
RE: My thoughts on this debate
I actually fell ASLEEP on Ham's rebuttal sigh I'm gonna have to rewatch the entire thing. His babble about historical science vs observational science start my counting winks
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05-02-2014, 06:20 AM
RE: My thoughts on this debate
You could turn this video debate into a science drinking game. Every time Ken mentions there is a book called the bible you take a drink.
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05-02-2014, 06:38 AM
RE: My thoughts on this debate
And every time nye says "by the way!" Geez.
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