My uncle was trying to convince me that religion is necessary for human survival
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28-04-2016, 02:02 PM
My uncle was trying to convince me that religion is necessary for human survival
He asserted that religion is the basis for the morals of the society we live in today. I asked him why we need to have to base our morality off of superstition and threat of damnation. He said that human beings are inherently psychopathic and it's only our upbringing that keeps us from being psychopaths.

He admitted that he thinks religion has been responsible for a lot of wars and that it's hard to believe the stories in the bible.

It's hard for me to totally and accurately reiterate the things he said, but those are some things I am sure that he said, which stand alone as statements in itself. I don't agree with him, but I'm left in that awkward position where I don't know how to argue back, so I just don't really offer a counter argument.

I did think he was extremely well composed and intellectual, I love listening to him talk. He's had a lot of world experience traveling and working for the government, especially in middle eastern countries like saudi arabia. I should be sure what to ask him about middle eastern countries.

From what I can see, religion really doesn't cause anything but problems. People are perfectly capable of being moral creatures without religion, religion is often the cause of more problems than it assumes it's worth. I also think that it's flawed to say that people need religion to be moral. My uncle says that i was raised by good parents, which is why I turned out to be a good person.

I was honestly fascinated by what he was saying. I don't agree with him, but I had a really fun time talking with him.
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28-04-2016, 02:09 PM
RE: My uncle was trying to convince me that religion is necessary for human survival
(28-04-2016 02:02 PM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  He asserted that religion is the basis for the morals of the society we live in today. I asked him why we need to have to base our morality off of superstition and threat of damnation. He said that human beings are inherently psychopathic and it's only our upbringing that keeps us from being psychopaths.

Then ask him to explain Europe, where the most atheistic countries are also the ones with the highest standards of living and the lowest crime rates. You are far less likely to run into a psychopath walking down the street in godless Amsterdam than you are in god's own Salt Lake City.


(28-04-2016 02:02 PM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  He admitted that he thinks religion has been responsible for a lot of wars and that it's hard to believe the stories in the bible.

That's because they are myths, which makes the fact that people die and kill for them all that more sad.

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28-04-2016, 02:25 PM
RE: My uncle was trying to convince me that religion is necessary for human survival
(28-04-2016 02:02 PM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  He asserted that religion is the basis for the morals of the society we live in today.

That would explain sexism, violence, homophoby and general lack of tolerance.

[quote]I asked him why we need to have to base our morality off of superstition and threat of damnation.[quote]

Could we call it morality if it is about following orders and fear?

Obedience to antiquated dogma is hardly a virtue.

[quote]He said that human beings are inherently psychopathic and it's only our upbringing that keeps us from being psychopaths.[quote]

It would be nice if he could prove it.



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The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

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28-04-2016, 02:31 PM
RE: My uncle was trying to convince me that religion is necessary for human survival
I think, at a certain point in the history of our species we really needed to maintain population levels to survive - particularly in hostile climates like much of the Middle East where the Abrahamic religions arose from. In those days the divine mandates to be fruitful and multiply, to not have sex outside of procreative purposes, to avoid shell fish and pork, they all helped keep the species going.

Nowadays we have the exact opposite problem, the biggest threat to our survival is the ever expanding population and the struggle for resources. The best thing that could happen to our species and the planet in general would be some kind of plague wiping out at least half of us.
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28-04-2016, 02:32 PM
RE: My uncle was trying to convince me that religion is necessary for human survival
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28-04-2016, 02:32 PM
RE: My uncle was trying to convince me that religion is necessary for human survival
Indeed. I really wanted to press him on some of those exact issues, but the night ended and my parents who drove me there had to leave. So I will unfortunately have to hold the questions until next time I see him.
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28-04-2016, 03:30 PM
RE: My uncle was trying to convince me that religion is necessary for human survival
(28-04-2016 02:02 PM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote:  He asserted that religion is the basis for the psychopaths of the society we live in today. I asked him why we need to have to base our insanity off of superstition and threat of damnation. He said that human beings are inherently moral and it's only our upbringing that keeps us from being sane.

There. That reads better.

Seriously though, what deity creates a race of psychopaths? They wouldn't survive beyond the first five minutes.

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28-04-2016, 04:37 PM
RE: My uncle was trying to convince me that religion is necessary for human survival
Perhaps there was a time with humans were more savage and animalistic since we are animals after all and some early tribes created religion in order to control the population but many of their rules were immoral. What is moral about giving people rules on how to sell your daughter into slavery? Or when it's ok to stone someone to death like working on a certain day?

Humans evolve in many ways, not just physically but emotionally and morally, after the age of reason and many philosophies and forms of government became more useful humans discovered ideas like social contracts which allowed us to relate to each other in a more civilized way, we created laws, criminal justice, etc. At this point we really don't need religion anymore, if someone needs the fear of judgement by a magical sky daddy to be a good person they lack empathy, it's just that simple.

If someone truly lacks empathy no amount of religion in the world will cure them of their psychopathy, many theists commit terrible crimes and sometimes use their beliefs as an excuse for their actions or simply say "Well Jesus died for my sins so I'm still going to Heaven anyway." They have rules that state "Don't kill" but they still kill so what's the point?

Once we truly evolve past religion we will live in a more compassionate society where ideals of true goodness, cooperation, science and progress can be achieved. If all you ever tell people is that they need a God to be good, then they will need a God to be good. If we tell them are born instinctively empathetic and wanting to work for the common good they will be empathetic and work for the common good.

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28-04-2016, 07:46 PM
RE: My uncle was trying to convince me that religion is necessary for human survival
With all due respect, your uncle sounds like an idiot.

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
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28-04-2016, 08:07 PM
RE: My uncle was trying to convince me that religion is necessary for human survival
(28-04-2016 07:46 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  With all due respect, your uncle sounds like an idiot.
I assure you, he's not an idiot. I don't agree with him on his positions about religion at all, I don't feel like trying to assert myself over him when I'm not really sure how to present a counter argument. He is actually a very smart, diplomatic person, who owns several houses around the globe, works for the government, totally schooled my trump supporting relatives at the dinner table in an epic way. He may not have good points on religion, but I do like having conversations with him.
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